fsf-list@thenet.co.uk DIGEST

12/04/1998 TO 28/05/1998


[ Summary of subjects in this digest 108 messages in all ]

Subject: Weekly stats
Subject: "Sometimes The Universe Seems Small" site is up, feedback appreciated
Subject: Re: ID4 was a rascist film!
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ID4 was a rascist film!
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: "Sometimes The Universe Seems Small"
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re: Sphere
Subject: Re: Sphere
Subject: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Press Release about "Crusade" (fwd)
Subject: Re[2]: Sphere
Subject: Re[2]: Sphere
Subject: Re[3]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Sphere
Subject: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Tome of Eternity (fwd)
Subject: Tome of Eternity (fwd)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #68 (fwd)
Subject: Re: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!
Subject: THE SCI-FILE 68b -- CORRECTION (fwd)
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #69 (fwd)
Subject: Babylon 5 videos
Subject: Book review
Subject: Silly rumours
Subject: Its all gone quiet in here
Subject: Invasion: Earth
Subject: Re: Its all gone quiet in here
Subject: Genre Films
Subject: A pleasant surprise
Subject: (Babylon 5 related) Finishing book 9, are there anyothers? (fwd)
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: A pleasant surprise
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Dr. Brin
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: RE: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Invasion: Earth
Subject: Who news
Subject: Re[2]: Invasion: Earth
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[2]: A pleasant surprise
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Invasion: Earth
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #70 (fwd)
Subject: B5 upcoming (no spoilers) (was Re[4]: Invasion: Earth)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Sources of SF news on the net
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Genre Films
Subject: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re[6]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[5]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re[7]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: SIG quote
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: To Hold Infinity
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Subject: Chung Kuo
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: List archiving
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Subject: Re: SIG quote


From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:28:27 +0100
Subject: Weekly stats

Hi :)


                                              FSF-LIST POSTING STATS                                              

        FROM                                                                                           NUMBER               %
 
========================================================================
Eoghann Irving                                     24          
57.14%
David Kopaska-Merkel                     7          
16.66%
"Chris Bobbitt"                                   3            
7.14%
"Andy Reynolds"                                 2            
4.76%
Simon Forrester                   2            
4.76%
Teri Liston Piedrahita                           2            
4.76%
"Matthew Webber"                                         1            
2.38%
Chris Robinson                             1            
2.38%
"Pagan"                                         1            
2.38%


        SUBJECT                                                                                   NUMBER               %

========================================================================

Same world, different author                                                       10          
23.25%
New                                                                                                           7          
16.27%
ID4 and the state of modern SF film                                           5          
11.62%
new online fiction to be started                                                 4            
9.30%
Fiction webzine   (was: New)                                                           2            
4.65%
remove                                                                                                     1            
2.32%
THE SCI-FILE #67 (fwd)                                                                     1            
2.32%
Online fiction(was: New)                                                                 1            
2.32%
brief outage                                                                                         1            
2.32%
Oktober                                                                                                   1            
2.32%
Tim Powers                                                                                             1            
2.32%
JMS Confirms Crusade a Go! (fwd)                                                 1            
2.32%
ATTN JMS: Bruce B and Cast Turmoil? (fwd)                               1            
2.32%
The Drawing of the Dark   (was Re Same world, diff               1            
2.32%
Website                                                                                                   1            
2.32%
List news                                                                                               1            
2.32%
ID4 was a cool film!                                                                         1            
2.32%
ID4 was a rascist film!                                                                   1            
2.32%
Mailinglist Stats                                                                               1            
2.32%
Final warning ;)                                                                                 1            
2.32%



--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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Date: , 10 1998 19:01:18 GMT
From: bealzebub@hotmail.com (Chris Bobbitt)
Subject: "Sometimes The Universe Seems Small" site is up, feedback appreciated

Hey,
The official site for the weekly fiction I wrote about in a recent message to the list is up. The only things working right now are the main page http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/index.html , the history page http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/history.html , and the background infor page (which, by the way, is not listed on the main page as it is only temporary) http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/sfsbginfo.html
So, check it out and write me back with your responses, comments, suggestions, etc. bealzebub@hotmail.com
and you can always go to my main hompage http://www.tex-web.com/snark
laters
Chris Bobbitt
And Now For Something Completely Different http://www.tex-web.com/snark
Sometimes The Universe Seems Small http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/index.html
bealzebub@hotmail.com

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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:43:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Krolczyk
Subject: Re: ID4 was a rascist film!


On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Matthew Webber wrote:

> > Eoghann Irving wrote:

> >The subject for debate is...
> >Films like ID4 are just as /good/ as films like BladeRunner and 2001.

> Plot wise, ID4 was ... fairly typical of the base-level action SF that
> is filling the movie theaters today. But since it never claimed to be
> anything else, why bother to pick at it. Though the fact that the aliens
> used WINDOWS software was too funny.

...or too, er, cheap. Granted, ID4 had some impressive SFX, but shouldn't
the SuperPowerful Alien Conquerors (TM) have had something a bit more,
well, _impressive_ WRT their computers? Maybe they hire IT specialists on
the cheap....

> What I disliked, intensly, were the characterizations that were so
> stereotyped as to be rascist. the man of action and muscle black and his
> stripper girlfriend (single mother no less), the wise old jew, the
> computer geek jew, ... all led by the fearless, dedicated family man,
> White guy.

Yeah. A lovely bit of _kulturkampf_ against diversity all around, though
deeming Will Smith (I mean, _Will Smith_?) a "muscle black" is a   bit
of a stretch.

>       The other sterotypes; The burned-out, white trash vet, and the
> flamboyant homosexual weren't quite racist, but did go far in
> highlighting the sheer lack of imagination that went into the writing.

Granted, Harvey Feirstein makes no bones about his real-life sexuality:
now, Brent Spiner's spacecase/Herr Doktor Quack-Quack scientist,
_he's_ a mite difficult to explain....

>       The "up with America" attitude, while expected, was tiresome. Anyone
> else notice that the Aliens didn't attack Canada at all?

They saw the force of hockey goons dropping their gloves when they flew
up towards the border and immediately decided against it. >:)

Chris Krolczyk      
krolczyk@mcs.com     http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3048
UCE: just another way of saying that you're greedy *and* stupid.



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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:55:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Krolczyk
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ID4 was a rascist film!




On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>   On 02-Apr-98, Matthew Webber wrote:

> > What I disliked, intensly, were the characterizations that were so
> > stereotyped as to be rascist. the man of action and muscle black and
> his
> > stripper girlfriend (single mother no less), the wise old jew, the
> > computer geek jew, ... all led by the fearless, dedicated family
> man,
> > White guy.
> >     The other sterotypes; The burned-out, white trash vet, and the
> > flamboyant homosexual weren't quite racist, but did go far in
> > highlighting the sheer lack of imagination that went into the
> writing.

> I hadn't really looked at this as a racist thing actually.   Certainly
> its a bunch of cliches.   The characters were one-dimensional cyphers.

Well, yeah, but how overt does the racism have to be in order to qualify
for racism? Admittedly, the entire Wil (oops, earlier spelling was a bit
off) Smith/Vivica Fox romance subplot was suprisingly intelligent for a
film that had Judd Hirsch acting like every painfully cliched stock Jewish
character all rolled up in one, but let's face it; the characterization in
_ID4_ was not its strong suit. Maybe racism _wasn't_ the cause, but you'd
be hard-pressed the figure out what the scriptwriters had in mind at
times.

> >     The "up with America" attitude, while expected, was tiresome.
> Anyone
> > else notice that the Aliens didn't attack Canada at all? There is a
> > scence somewhere that shows all the cities with ships above them ...
> not
> > one north of New York. No doubt because the aliens new that the
> people
> > up in Toronto would be to busy complaining that their cable just cut
>
> > out.  
>
> Well I tend to expect a pro-American attitude from an american film.
> Although there are a few expceptions.

And I _still_ say that all those hockey goons standing at the border with
their gloves off was what did it.

(Sorry - never mind the demented hockey fan who keeps bringing that crap
up on the newsgroup - he couldn't resist.... >:)

> To be fair though I tend to expect a pro-British attitude from British
> films and thats usually the case too. :)

That, and Sontarans on _Doctor Who_ who have just a bit too much of a
London accent not to be interested in the test match against the Rutans
next fortnight.

Chris Krolczyk      
krolczyk@mcs.com     http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3048
UCE: just another way of saying that you're greedy *and* stupid.



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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:01:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Krolczyk
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Same world, different author



On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Eoghann Irving wrote:

> Beer...
>
> I'm struggling to add anything intelligent to this now.

It'd be easier if you hadn't had so many pints _before_ you wrote this,
mate.... >:)


> Beer...
>
> What no dragons? ;)

We slew 'em. They tried to drink our beer, the barstards....

Chris Krolczyk      
krolczyk@mcs.com     http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3048
UCE: just another way of saying that you're greedy *and* stupid.



[RETURN TO TOP]



Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:20:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Krolczyk
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film



On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Matthew Webber wrote:

> While I don't think the movie would have been at hit at the 1941 Berlin
> Film Festival, the ridged stereotyping present within the ID4 indicates
> a serious flaw within the script that prevents the movie from becomming
> a 'good' simple action/SF movie.

Unfortunately, what makes a "'good' simple action/SF movies" these days
seems to be what you've just mentioned. I'm not justifying it, mind you,
but this assumption (among others) seems to be what drives the scripts in
most of these things these days. I mean, how many films _besides_ ID4 have
you seen where the black character Who Could Be a Central Character But
Isn't ends up gutted by the Horrorific Alien Thingie first?

> The use of archetypes within a movie, especially one such as this that
> aimed low in both content and plot as this one, is far from uncommon and
> that is not what I am attempting to critizise. In a simple movie, you
> use simple and recognizable characters. But the fact that the present
> sterotypes where so blatant and culturally simple severly colours my
> thinking, and I think it will colour how this movie will be seen in the
> future.

....if anyone bothers thinking about it at all. Compared to _Men in
Black_, who's going to give a rat's behinney about _ID4_? Granted, _MiB_
wasn't trying to be a serious film; neither was _ID4_, IMHO, and the only
film that went further in trying to look goofy while posing as a "serious"
film probably was _Starship Troopers_.

> I don't think that any of this was done on purpose by the writers,

....you sure about this?

> and
> in a way that almost makes it worse.

Nah. Outright ignorance precludes malice. Or lack of inspiration, in this
case.

> Can't wait for the thousands of
> fleeing Japanese in the upcomming 'Godzilla'

What? You're not looking forward to the thousands of Nuu Yawkahs fleeing
and screaming obscenities at him instead?

> Which brings me to my disgust with most modern SF movies. Pretty Bang
> Bang. But as you say, as long as that is all they reach for, then it is
> not fair to critize if they don't reach the intellectual level of
> 'Citizen Kane'...or the Bill and Ted adventures.

Unfortunately, you still can criticize them for not being even a halfway
adequate depiction of what a SF film _can_ be. _Blade Runner_, anyone?

> Some would point to 'Gattaca', a neat little bandwagon of a movie that
> was one step removed from the sheep that inspired it. It will be
> remebered, if remembered at all, as a quaint period piece. There have
> been thousands upon thousands of SF books that have explored genetic
> engineering in a thousand different ways ... and Hollywood choses to
> make this flat, uninteresting film (granted that is a personal opinion)
> that looked and felt like it had been made in 1974.

OTOH, even if the damn thing looked like it had been made in 1963 it
would've still had one thing over ID4: actual intellectual content above
the usual "kill them goldurned alien revenooers" crap.

> Then again, I think
> about what Hollywood did to P.K.Dick's "We Can Remeber it for you
> Wholesale" and shudder at the thought of what they might if they got
> their greedy little hands on G.Bear's "Blood Music".

One might be forced to consider what happened to _Johhny Mnemonic_ - and
then reach for the air-sickness bag....

Chris Krolczyk      
krolczyk@mcs.com     http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3048
UCE: just another way of saying that you're greedy *and* stupid.



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Date: , 14 1998 00:31:34 GMT
From: bealzebub@hotmail.com (Chris Bobbitt)
Subject: "Sometimes The Universe Seems Small"

Hi again. It's me Chris, creator and co-writer of the quasi-weekly sciffi serial "Sometimes The Universe Seems Small".
The page's address has changed from http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/index.html to http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/
update what needs updating.
Chris


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From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:19:36 +0000
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!

:Lurker mode OFF/

Hi all,

Dramatic title huh? Well my soon to be missus has just informed me that the
new season of B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

/Please/ can anyone let me have a copy (providing it does'nt infringe
anything, or you don't care). I'll send you a blank video and the return
postage.

TIA

Des Wilkinson.


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From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:19:36 +0000
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!

:Lurker mode OFF/

Hi all,

Dramatic title huh? Well my soon to be missus has just informed me that the
new season of B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

/Please/ can anyone let me have a copy (providing it does'nt infringe
anything, or you don't care). I'll send you a blank video and the return
postage.

TIA

Des Wilkinson.


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:21:41 +0000
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!

:Lurker mode OFF/

Hi all,

Dramatic title huh? Well my soon to be missus has just informed me that the
new season of B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

/Please/ can anyone let me have a copy (providing it does'nt infringe
anything, or you don't care). I'll send you a blank video and the return
postage.

TIA

Des Wilkinson.


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:33:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Sphere

Lurker mode/ off again!!

Hi all,

Anyone see the stinking pile of doggy doo that they turned a (reasonably) good
book by Micheal Crichton into?

If they'd tried to make it more confusing by being put together any other way
they could not have succeeded...

Or perhaps, you think otherwise.

Regards,


Des Wilkinson


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From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:07:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Sphere

Lurker mode/ off again!!

Hi all,

Anyone see the stinking pile of doggy doo that they turned a (reasonably) good
book by Micheal Crichton into?

If they'd tried to make it more confusing by being put together any other way
they could not have succeeded...

Or perhaps, you think otherwise.

Regards,


Des Wilkinson


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:38:49 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Des :)

On 16-Apr-98, Des Wilkinson wrote:

> Dramatic title huh? Well my soon to be missus has just informed me that
the
> new season of B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:23:21 +0100
Subject: Press Release about "Crusade" (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by Erez Zadok on 13-Apr-98
***

Forwarded message to B5JMS list.
Originally From: judge@america.net (Dirk A. Loedding)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Babylon 5' Gives Birth To `Crusade'

Babylonian Productions Creates New Series and Two New
Made-For-Television

Movies For TNT

NORTH HOLLYWOOD, Calif., April 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Netter Digital
Entertainment Inc. (Nasdaq: NETT) (Netter) in association with J.
Michael Straczynski's Synthetic Worlds, Ltd., announced today that
Babylonian Productions will produce an all-new original series for
Turner Network Television (TNT) called "CRUSADE" and has started
production on the third Babylon 5 original full-length movie,
"Babylon 5: The River of Souls," for TNT.

"We've spent the last five years building one of the most complex
and carefully thought-out science fiction universes in TV history,"
explains `CRUSADE' creator J. Michael Straczynski, and
creator/executive producer of the Hugo and Emmy award-winning series
Babylon 5. "For most of that time, we've been confined to the Babylon
5 station. Now, in 'CRUSADE,' we will have the unique opportunity to
go out and explore that universe in considerably more detail, seeing
strange new places and encountering ancient, forgotten cities which
hold secrets that may mean life or death for Earth. There are
million-year old vaults, opened at last; and new races making first
contact with humans in addition to explorations of the dozens of
worlds established in the Babylon 5 universe."

In "CRUSADE," the threat of the Shadows gone, all is quiet on Earth
-- too quiet. An alien race vows revenge for the loss of the Shadows
and aims its wrath at humans, unleashing a deadly biogenetic plague.
Only five years remain for the inhabitants of Earth unless an
Alliance ship, the Excalibur, succeeds in its quest to find a cure
for the mutating plague.

"CRUSADE" launches with the spectacular two-hour TNT original film
"A Call To Arms." In addition, an ancient vault filled with relics
believed to hold the secret to eternal life is the centerpiece of
the previously announced two- hour film, "Babylon 5: The River of
Souls." Martin Sheen ("The American President," "Apocalypse Now"),
Ian McShane and series stars Tracy Scoggins, Jerry Doyle, Richard
Biggs and Jeff Conaway will headline TNT's third Babylon 5
full-length movie.

"'River of Souls' and 'A Call to Arms' both help to set the tone for
this new series by presenting first takes on a new form of science
fiction for television: archaeological SF, in which ancient secrets
have an impact on current situations, and a more action-oriented
tone, with greater humor and more emphasis on characterization.
These are for fun, a chance to break out and go nuts. I've been
doing angst for five years now; these films are going to be a hoot,"
says Straczynski.

Douglas Netter, Chairman, CEO and President of Netter, and series
creator J. Michael Straczynski will executive-produce the new series
and two-hour films, scripted by Straczynski for Babylonian
Productions. Warner Bros. licensed the series and film.

Netter Digital Technologies, a division of Netter, which currently
provides the special effects for Babylon 5, is creating the effects
for the new movies and "CRUSADE" series.

John Copeland, producer of Babylon 5 and executive vice president of
Netter says, "In our industry, it is rare to have the level of
international success that we have been so fortunate to attain with
Babylon 5. Our international audience has been nothing short of
steadfast in its devotion to the characters and the stories of
Babylon 5. 'CRUSADE' will continue in this vein; striving to break
new ground in special effects, character, plot and ingenuity.

"We are pleased once again to have TNT and Warner Bros. as our
partners in moving forward in this newer millennium and to know of
their plans to produce additional TNT Babylon 5 movies," says
Douglas Netter. "We are equally as pleased to have our qualified and
dedicated staff, working on these new exciting projects."

Turner Network Television (TNT), currently seen in more than 72
million homes, is Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.'s 24-hour,
advertiser-supported service offering original motion pictures and
series; contemporary films from the worlds largest film library, the
combined Turner and Warner Bros. film libraries; exciting NBA sports
action; popular television series; and timeless cartoons.

Turner Broadcasting System, Inc., a subsidiary of Time Warner Inc.,
is a major producer of news and entertainment product around the
world and the leading provider of programming for the basic cable
industry.

Netter Digital Entertainment, Inc. is engaged in the acquisition,
development and production of television series, made for television
movies, documentaries, theatrical motion pictures and multimedia
products. The Babylon 5 television series is produced in association
with J. Michael Straczynski's Synthetic Worlds, Ltd. under Babylonian
Productions which Netter Digital is the majority owner. The series
airs on the TNT Network. The company's wholly owned subsidiary,
Videssence, Inc., provides high tech media lighting products for the
entertainment, electronic news and video conferencing/distant
learning markets. Netter recently entered the business of providing
digital media production services to outside clients through a newly
formed division, Netter Digital Technologies.



--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     Dirk A. Loedding                             <*>                             judge@america.net
  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

--
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.info   <*>   Another fine service of ISN, Mars
Bureau
submissions to:   b5-info@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
comments to:         b5-info-request@callisto.pas.rochester.edu

-***
-*** B5JMS SUBSCRIBERS: Replies to messages go to the list maintainer,
-*** .   If you want to reply elsewhere,
adjust
-*** the "To" field.   See http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ezk/b5jms/ for
all
-*** other information about this list.

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:00:45 +0000
Subject: Re[2]: Sphere

On 16-Apr-98, Denice Elza did splutter forth:
>
>
> Excuse me!! I liked that "stinking pile of doggy doo"
> At 11:07 PM 4/16/98 +0000, you wrote:

Why ?

It was badly put together the plot was competely muddled and mixed up, yes
granted the original concept was a good idea, but well....


Kind regards


Des.


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:00:19 +0000
Subject: Re[2]: Sphere

On 16-Apr-98, Denice Elza did splutter forth:
>
>
> Excuse me!! I liked that "stinking pile of doggy doo"
> At 11:07 PM 4/16/98 +0000, you wrote:

Why ?

It was badly put together the plot was competely muddled and mixed up, yes
granted the original concept was a good idea, but well....


Kind regards


Des.


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:31:39 +0100
Subject: Re[3]: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Eoghann :)

Talking to myself, the first sign of madness.....

On 17-Apr-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:
> On 16-Apr-98, Des Wilkinson wrote:

>> Dramatic title huh? Well my soon to be missus has just informed me
that
> the
>> new season of B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

> AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Further to that.   The first two episodes are being repeated this
monday (20th April) at 1.15am.   Set your video. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:53:11 +0000
Subject: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Eoghann

On 19-Apr-98, Eoghann Irving did splutter forth:
> Further to that.   The first two episodes are being repeated this
> monday (20th April) at 1.15am.   Set your video. :)
>
Regards

Ahhh at last i'm saved! I watched the episode today (Londos Long Night?) and
saw Tracey Scoggins in the credits, is this a good thing? It just seems to me
that she's probaly in as "eye candy" and Joan Collins will be in next with a
cameo from Elizabeth Taylor..

Hopefully now I can pick up the plot.

BTW the episode today was a cracker, seeing Londo face his nemisis, it almost
gave me a lump in my throat when he apologised.


              Des Wilkinson
        golic@thenet.co.uk
          A1200 030/50 10mb
Hoping to get a cheap CD ROM
    Almost Married - May 9th!


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Steve Bashforth
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:01:58 +0100
Subject: Re: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Eoghann

On 17-Apr-98, you wrote:

> B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!

> AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

I've just missed this Weeks Episode as well now :-((((((((((((((

I usually see it advertised on C4 the week before it starts.

Anyone out there taped them and fancy going into mass production ;-)

If C4 kept it at its old old time we wouldn't have a problem. 18:00 on
Wednesday we all got used to, the last session Late at Night ("Due to its
Violent Content" ???), now Sunday at Dinner Time (Must have a highly
Religous content this season)

                                                                                Bashy ...

Thought about Buying the Episodes, but could be worth trying Blockbusters
first.

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "John Morrison"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Sphere
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:06:46 +0100


-----Original Message-----
From: Des Wilkinson
To: fsf-list@thenet.co.uk
Date: 18 April 1998 09:06
Subject: Re[2]: Sphere


>On 16-Apr-98, Denice Elza did splutter forth:
>>
>>
>> Excuse me!! I liked that "stinking pile of doggy doo"
>> At 11:07 PM 4/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Why ?
>
>It was badly put together the plot was competely muddled and mixed up, yes
>granted the original concept was a good idea, but well....


I'm afraid I agree with you there Des. Sphere was a complete load of toilet.

J.


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:00:35 +0000
Subject: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Steve

On 19-Apr-98, Steve Bashforth did splutter forth:

>> B5 started *_Last Sunday_* on channel 4 !!!???!!!
>
> I've just missed this Weeks Episode as well now :-((((((((((((((
>
> I usually see it advertised on C4 the week before it starts.
>
> Anyone out there taped them and fancy going into mass production ;-)
>
> If C4 kept it at its old old time we wouldn't have a problem. 18:00 on
> Wednesday we all got used to, the last session Late at Night ("Due to its
> Violent Content" ???), now Sunday at Dinner Time (Must have a highly
> Religous content this season)
>
>                                                                                 Bashy ...
>
> Thought about Buying the Episodes, but could be worth trying Blockbusters
> first.
>
It's on again in the /_early_/ hours of Tuesday morning!
I'm gonna try and catch it then.

cya,



              Des Wilkinson
          A1200 030/50 10mb
Hoping to get a cheap CD ROM
    Almost Married - May 9th!

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:24:15 +0100
Subject: Tome of Eternity (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by EternityOL on 20-Apr-98
***
Tome of Eternity -- April 19, 1998

The Newsletter of Eternity Magazine and Pulp Eternity

http://members.aol.com/eternityol

A. Feedback
B. Countdown to 100,000
C. Issue 9 Preview
D. Pulp Eternity Update
E. Website Renovations
F. Short Story of the Year

The contributors and editorial staff of would like to thank everyone
for all
the feedback on this month's stories and the new format. Remember, the
story
of the month receives a cash bonus, so please reward these fine
authors by
rating the stories after you read them. It only takes a few seconds on
the
easy form at the end of each story. The response has been excellent
this
month, and the voting is very close. The current standings are as
follows:

9.24 Fade To White
9.21 The Prodigals
9.00 Genesis Song
8.67 The Lives of Ghosts
8.56 Femat's Legacy
8.44 The Numbers Control
8.43 Trap Doors
8.00 Brave Heart
8.00 Thirst for Knowledge
7.86 Lightbender
7.80 After The Warming
7.67 All The News
6.67 The Winning Spirit

B. Countdown to 100,000. As reported in the last issue, Eternity will
soon
receive its 100,000th hit. In celebration of this momentous even, the
visitor
who records this special hit will receive a lifetime subscription to
all
Eternity Press publications. The countdown has begun, and within the
next 30
days Eternity will reach 100,000 hits. Will that special person be
you?

C. Issue 8 is by far our most ambitious effort to date, and our last
themed
issue for a while. Issue 9 will be even greater with 14 original
stories from
some great authors, many of which will be making their first
appearance in
Eternity. It will also feature an original interview with one of
science
fiction's top authors, some great new writing articles, expanded book
reviews
section, zine scene reviews for small press magazines, the Elite Sites
of the
web and more. Watch for the debut in late May.

D. The debut of our new professional print magazine is coming closer.
Stay
tuned for profiles on the authors and artists whose work will be
featured in
"TimeA Retrospective" sometime in late May. Newsletter subscribers can
now
pre-order Volume 1 for only $4 per copy postpaid, a savings of $1.95
off the
$5.95 cover price. Four-issue subscriptions are only $15 for a limited
time.
Make checks or MOs payable to Steve Algieri, and send to Eternity
Press, PO
Box 930068, Norcross, GA 30003.

E. Website Renovations.

The Writers Den: All the writing articles will now be archived in the
renovated Writers Den at its new URL,
http://members.aol.com/writersden. A few
of the pages might disappear for a day or two, but every page will be
updated
soon.

Best of the Web Award: The links section is being torn down to be
replaced by
an expanded award and review section at
http://members.aol.com/sybersldr. All
the same links, but they will be group in sections: Elite Sites, 4
Star, 3
Star, and 2 Star to help you find the most useful sites. You'll also
find
several new categories including anime, culture and UFO's. This area
has
become our second most popular so stop by.

F. Short Story of the Year. Readers can now vote for the Short Story
of the
Year. All the stories are now online, and you can read them and cast
your
vote. The winning story nets their writer a $50 bonus and publication
in Pulp
Eternity, so they need your support. One lucky reader who votes on all
the
stories will also receive a lifetime subscription to Pulp Eternity.
I'm
keeping a record of all the email addresses who cast votes. From those
who
vote for all the stories, one winner will be chosen. So vote today.

Thanks again for making Eternity the highest rated science fiction
magazine on
the net. Remember to vote for us on the cover.

Steve Algieri, Editor

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:24:33 +0100
Subject: Tome of Eternity (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by EternityOL on 20-Apr-98
***
Tome of Eternity -- April 19, 1998

The Newsletter of Eternity Magazine and Pulp Eternity

http://members.aol.com/eternityol

A. Feedback
B. Countdown to 100,000
C. Issue 9 Preview
D. Pulp Eternity Update
E. Website Renovations
F. Short Story of the Year

The contributors and editorial staff of would like to thank everyone
for all
the feedback on this month's stories and the new format. Remember, the
story
of the month receives a cash bonus, so please reward these fine
authors by
rating the stories after you read them. It only takes a few seconds on
the
easy form at the end of each story. The response has been excellent
this
month, and the voting is very close. The current standings are as
follows:

9.24 Fade To White
9.21 The Prodigals
9.00 Genesis Song
8.67 The Lives of Ghosts
8.56 Femat's Legacy
8.44 The Numbers Control
8.43 Trap Doors
8.00 Brave Heart
8.00 Thirst for Knowledge
7.86 Lightbender
7.80 After The Warming
7.67 All The News
6.67 The Winning Spirit

B. Countdown to 100,000. As reported in the last issue, Eternity will
soon
receive its 100,000th hit. In celebration of this momentous even, the
visitor
who records this special hit will receive a lifetime subscription to
all
Eternity Press publications. The countdown has begun, and within the
next 30
days Eternity will reach 100,000 hits. Will that special person be
you?

C. Issue 8 is by far our most ambitious effort to date, and our last
themed
issue for a while. Issue 9 will be even greater with 14 original
stories from
some great authors, many of which will be making their first
appearance in
Eternity. It will also feature an original interview with one of
science
fiction's top authors, some great new writing articles, expanded book
reviews
section, zine scene reviews for small press magazines, the Elite Sites
of the
web and more. Watch for the debut in late May.

D. The debut of our new professional print magazine is coming closer.
Stay
tuned for profiles on the authors and artists whose work will be
featured in
"TimeA Retrospective" sometime in late May. Newsletter subscribers can
now
pre-order Volume 1 for only $4 per copy postpaid, a savings of $1.95
off the
$5.95 cover price. Four-issue subscriptions are only $15 for a limited
time.
Make checks or MOs payable to Steve Algieri, and send to Eternity
Press, PO
Box 930068, Norcross, GA 30003.

E. Website Renovations.

The Writers Den: All the writing articles will now be archived in the
renovated Writers Den at its new URL,
http://members.aol.com/writersden. A few
of the pages might disappear for a day or two, but every page will be
updated
soon.

Best of the Web Award: The links section is being torn down to be
replaced by
an expanded award and review section at
http://members.aol.com/sybersldr. All
the same links, but they will be group in sections: Elite Sites, 4
Star, 3
Star, and 2 Star to help you find the most useful sites. You'll also
find
several new categories including anime, culture and UFO's. This area
has
become our second most popular so stop by.

F. Short Story of the Year. Readers can now vote for the Short Story
of the
Year. All the stories are now online, and you can read them and cast
your
vote. The winning story nets their writer a $50 bonus and publication
in Pulp
Eternity, so they need your support. One lucky reader who votes on all
the
stories will also receive a lifetime subscription to Pulp Eternity.
I'm
keeping a record of all the email addresses who cast votes. From those
who
vote for all the stories, one winner will be chosen. So vote today.

Thanks again for making Eternity the highest rated science fiction
magazine on
the net. Remember to vote for us on the cover.

Steve Algieri, Editor

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:02:11 +0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: My world ha fallen apart!!

> It's on again in the /_early_/ hours of Tuesday morning!
> I'm gonna try and catch it then.

I'm relying on Videoplus and PDC to catch it. If it fails again (like
it did Sunday), you may well hear swearing even from where you
live... ;)

Paul
--
---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ----
                        FidoNet: 2:254/60.11           2:442/103.13
        --->               http://www.trak-one.co.uk/foti               <---

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Des Wilkinson
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:17:40 +0000
Subject: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!

Hello Paul

On 21-Apr-98, Paul Walker did splutter forth:
>> It's on again in the /_early_/ hours of Tuesday morning!
>> I'm gonna try and catch it then.
>
> I'm relying on Videoplus and PDC to catch it. If it fails again (like
> it did Sunday), you may well hear swearing even from where you
> live... ;)
>

Hope you got it :)



              Des Wilkinson
          A1200 030/50 10mb
Hoping to get a cheap CD ROM
    Almost Married - May 9th!


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:57:14 +0100
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #68 (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by scifi-lists@scifi.com on
23-Apr-98 ***
                                            Science Fiction Weekly
                              More than 40,000 registered readers!
                                        http://www.scifiweekly.com


-> ONLINE NEBULA COVERAGE
Science Fiction Weekly and The Dominion will be providing live, online
coverage of this year's Nebula Awards Ceremony starting at 5 p.m. EDT
on
Saturday, May 2. We will also be chatting with several of this year's
nominees -- including George R.R. Martin, Walter Jon Williams and
Vonda N.
McIntyre -- on April 28 starting at 8 p.m. EDT. Please join us for our
in-depth coverage of the only SF awards given by professional SF&F
authors
to their peers. For more information about our online lineup or to
learn
how you can participate in our chats, please visit:
http://www.scifi.com/chat/

-> SCIENCE FICTION WEEKLY 68
Science Fiction Weekly 68 is now online. This issue we look at the
second
"Species" film, a Sci-Fi Channel original movie starring Terry
Farrell, new
books by Peter F. Hamilton and Jack Vance, the SF collectible card
game
"C*23," Charlton Heston's classic SF film "The Omega Man," a CD-ROM
that
lets you experience space flight, and more.   Plus we have all the
latest
news from Sci-Fi Wire.   This issue's contents include:


-> NEWS OF THE WEEK
Paramount launches "Star Trek IX," "no plans" for new "Omni," SF Hall
of
Fame planned, Cameron options "Mars Trilogy," the 1998 Hugo nominees
are
announced, and more.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/news.html


-> OFF THE SHELF
We review the fourth book in Peter F. Hamilton's acclaimed space opera
saga
"The Reality Dysfunction," and we look at SF grandmaster Jack Vance's
new
novel "Ports of Call."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/books.html


-> ON SCREEN
Natasha Henstridge returns to the silver screen with "Species II," and
Terry Farrell leads Parker Stevenson, Rick Springfield and Corey
Feldman in
"Legion."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/screen.html


-> CLASSIC SCI-FI
While plans for a third movie adaptation of "I Am Legend" have
recently
been scrapped, the Charlton Heston version "The Omega Man" is still
well
worth watching.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/classic.html


-> SCI-FI SITE OF THE WEEK
If you're looking for book reviews and short fiction criticism on the
Web,
the creators of "SF Site" have a bookmark for you.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/site.html


-> ANIME
In "Leda," a young woman must fight an evil empire to save her world
from
destruction.   But is her sword a match for killer robots?

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/anime.html


-> COOL SCI-FI STUFF
If you've ever dreamed of soaring into space and exploring our solar
system, "Planetary Missions" is the CD-ROM for you.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/cool.html


-> GAMES
Wizards of the Coast and comic book legend Jim Lee have teamed up to
create
"C*23," the first in a new line of collectible card games.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/games.html
                 
                 
-> LETTERS
We received a flood of letters from readers commenting on the new
"Lost in
Space" film, and it seems everyone has a different opinion about how
good
(or bad) the film was. We also get the straight scoop about the
"X-File"
Expo from another reader, and Aspect editor Betsy Mitchell tells us
that
Peter F. Hamilton is working "furiously" on his next book.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/letters.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The SCI-FILE is Science Fiction Weekly's "what's new" newsletter.   To
be
removed from our mailing list, send e-mail with the words "unsubscribe
sfw"
in the body of the message to scifi-lists@scifi.com. You do not need
to enter
a subject in the subject line.

If you have any questions, e-mail our listmaster at
sfw-admin@scifi.com

(c) 1998 Science Fiction Weekly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:58:14 +0000
Subject: Re: Re[4]: My world ha fallen apart!!

> > I'm relying on Videoplus and PDC to catch it. If it fails again (like
> > it did Sunday), you may well hear swearing even from where you
> > live... ;)
> Hope you got it :)

Yep, it worked. Haven't found time to *watch* it yet, but it's
sitting on the tape. :)


Paul
--
---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ----
                        FidoNet: 2:254/60.11           2:442/103.13
        --->               http://www.trak-one.co.uk/foti               <---

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:12:48 +0100
Subject: THE SCI-FILE 68b -- CORRECTION (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by scifi-lists@scifi.com on
28-Apr-98 ***
                                            Science Fiction Weekly
                              More than 40,000 registered readers!
                                        http://www.scifiweekly.com


                                                    **CORRECTION**


->ONLINE NEBULA COVERAGE
Our live online coverage of the Nebula Awards Ceremony will begin at
9pm ET
on Saturday, May 2, not at 5pm ET as we'd mistakenly announced
earlier.   We
apologize for the error and regret any inconvenience this may have
caused.

->CHAT WITH THE NEBULE NOMINEES
We've also added Connie Willis to our Nebula nominee chat, which will
take
place at 8pm ET on Tuesday, April 28, as previously announced.   Our
list of
guests now includes:

8:00pm ET Connie Willis                                 Novel: Bellweather
8:30pm ET George R.R. Martin                       Novel: A Game of Thrones
9:00pm ET Walter Jon Williams                     Novel: City on Fire
9:30pm ET Vonda N. McIntyre                         Novel: The Moon and the Sun

For more information on our chats, including instructions on how you
can
participate, please visit:   http://www.scifi.com/chat

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The SCI-FILE is Science Fiction Weekly's "what's new" newsletter.   To
be
removed from our mailing list, send e-mail with the words "unsubscribe
sfw"
in the body of the message to scifi-lists@scifi.com. You do not need
to enter
a subject in the subject line.

If you have any questions, e-mail our listmaster at
sfw-admin@scifi.com

(c) 1998 Science Fiction Weekly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:16:54 +0100
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #69 (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by scifi-lists@scifi.com on
05-May-98 ***
                                            Science Fiction Weekly
                              More than 40,000 registered readers!
                                        http://www.scifiweekly.com


-> THE SCI-FILE #69

This issue we focus on large objects striking the Earth as we take an
advance look at the upcoming SF movie "Deep Impact," a look back at
the
Larry Niven/Jerry Pournelle best-selling novel "Lucifer's Hammer," and
a
look into NASA Web site designed to tell users just how dangerous Near
Earth Objects are.   John Clute also returns to our pages with his
monthly
column Excessive Candour, we bring you a recap of all the news from
Sci-Fi
Wire, and much more. This issue includes:


-> EXCESSIVE CANDOUR
SF scholar and critic John Clute takes a look at Jonathan Lethem's new
SF
novel "Girl in Landscape" in his new column, "A most silent book."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/excess.html
                 

-> NEWS OF THE WEEK
See who won the 1997 Nebula Awards, read about the new SF Web zine
four
former Omni staffers are creating, find out what Will Smith's next big
film
will be, and more.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/news.html


-> OFF THE SHELF
David Brin is back with the final installment in the New Uplift
Trilogy,
"Heaven's Reach," Damien Broderick reviews Greg Egan's latest book,
"Diaspora," and we also look at John Barnes' new novel, "Earth Made of
Glass."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/books.html


-> ON SCREEN
In "Deep Impact" a comet is about to hit the Earth, and if we can't
find a
way to stop it in time, only a million people will survive.   Who will
live
and who will die?

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/screen.html


-> CLASSIC SCI-FI
Long before Paramount made its "Deep Impact," Larry Niven and Jerry
Pournelle wrote a best-selling story about a comet striking the Earth:
"Lucifer's Hammer."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/classic.html


-> SCI-FI SITE OF THE WEEK
Worried about an asteroid or comet hitting the Earth?   So is NASA,
which is
why it created the Asteroid and Comet Impact Hazards Web site.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/site.html


-> ANIME
A brilliant secret agent is sent to ferret out the secret of Captain
Justy
Ueki Tylor's inexplicable success in "The Irresponsible Captain Tylor,
Vols. 2 & 3."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/anime.html


-> COOL SCI-FI STUFF
Set course for Las Vegas and beam aboard Star Trek: The Experience,
where
you can drink a "James Tea Kirk" in Quark's Bar or ride the "Voyage
Through
Space."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/cool.html


-> GAMES
Blizzard Entertainment has finally released "Starcraft," and we'll
tell you
if it was worth the wait. (Want a hint?   "We're in the pipe, five by
five."
Roger that!)

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/games.html
                 
                 
-> LETTERS
One reader wants to know why critics have been so hard on "Lost in
Space,"
another felt disillusioned and ripped off after going to the X-Files
Expo,
a third thinks a book without a plot is okay, and more.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/letters.html

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*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:07:11 +0100
Subject: Babylon 5 videos

Hi :)

Us lucky people in the UK have been able to buy B5 videos for years
now (I have a rather large collection of them).   It seems that WB in
American have finally cottoned on to the fact that this is a "good
thing" (TM) and are set to release the series on video there as well.

Sometimes I really wonder about large corporations.   It took them 5
years to realise they could make money selling videos???

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:24:35 +0100
Subject: Book review

Hi :)

KING'S DRAGON
By Kate Elliott

Reviewed by Eoghann Irving

Just finished reading this recently.   Its billed as volume one of the
"Crown Of Stars", a series of unspecified length.   Its 591 pages and
cost me a whopping 6.99.   Thats approximately $11.00.   I discovered
recently that it would be cheaper for me to buy an import of the
American print of a British book than to buy the British version. :-(

There are a lot of very familiar elements to this book.   We have a
young lad who never knew his parents.   A young girl who is being
hunted by something or someone.   Its got Elves.   But its not quite
what it seems.   For a start the Dragon of the title is not what you
think it is.

The starting points may be cliches, but Kate Elliott does some
interesting and original things with them.   The background of the book
is heavily based on Christian Europe.   Religion is very important in
this world, and also very believable.

Its not just that though.   The characters are complex.   Having
finished book one I still am not clear exactly who are the good guys
and who are the bad guys.   In fact I don't even know what the good
guys or the bad guys are trying to do yet.   Its rather refreshing I
must say.

The character from which this novel's title is taken actually plays a
fairly small part in this book.   I'm not sure if his part will be
bigger in book two, which also appears to be named after him.

One admirable trait the author has is a happiness to do beastly things
to her characters.   Several meet grizzly ends.   Those who don't
actually die tend to suffer in other ways.

So, a solid fantasy book.   I'm all ready for part two...

8/10

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:09:28 +0100
Subject: Silly rumours

Hi :)

Couldn't resist reposting this one seeing as we have a Future
Publishing employee on the list. ;-))

[ Summary: "The new issue of SFX has a tentative report (of a
tentative
    rumour) that JMS and his B5 crew are to begin work on a new show
based
    on the Sean Connery 'High Noon' update Outland." ]

#: 32666 S3/Bab 5:International
      10-May-98   00:52:00
Sb: #32589-New Show
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

          That's the funniest rumor I've seen in months.

          Where do they GET these things?   And why on earth don't they
just ASK ME
before printing something as silly as this?

          It's not like I'm hard to find....

                                                                                                                                    jms

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:01:47 +0100
Subject: Its all gone quiet in here

Hi :)

Someone subscribed to the list yesterday and I realised that it had
all gone quiet in here again.   Honestly, I'm busy for a few weeks and
you all stop talking. ;)

I've updated the website quite a bit, take a look and let me know what
you think.

If you have a fantasy related website and want a link, let me know.
If you don't have a fantasy related website but are prepared to link
to me anyway, cool, I'll stick you in the "List Members" section. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:04:23 +0100
Subject: Invasion: Earth

Hi :)

So what did those of you in the UK think of BBC Scotlands attempt at a
Sci-Fi story?

I can't quite make up my mind yet.   The story is interesting enough
that I want to watch episode two anyway.

I was pleasantly surprised by the effects though.   Not bad considering
the whole thing cost about the same as 2 episodes of a Star Trek
series. ;)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:12:36 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Its all gone quiet in here
Status: U

Eoghann:

The trouble is, nobody has said anything I had any response to, except
your comment that no one is posting (I noticed that too -- uncanny how
great minds think so much alike).

I'm chairing a poetry reading at DeepSouthCon in Birmingham AL, June 13
(or whatever day is the Saturday that weekend). If anyone on the list
will be there, bring some poetry and read it!

David KM

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:31:53 +0100
Subject: Genre Films

Hi :)

Inbetween buying a book and finding book tokens I bought Empire (UK
film magazine) today.

I didn't just buy it because of the picture of Uma Thurmon in a tight
fitting leather number on the cover.   Well not entirely anyway.   No I
got it for the big preview section which covers all the summer films.

Why is that of interest to this list?   Because there are a lot of what
the Sci-Fi mags insist on calling "Genre" films (rather an odd habit
since most films are one genre or another) heading our way.

Its worth pointing out that since this is a UK mag, the release dates
are for the UK and some of these may have already started showing in
the US.   I'm not sure, feel free to tell me. :)

Starting off with:


GODZILLA

I don't really need to tell you anything about this one I don't
suppose.   The only question is will the people who didn't like ID4 go
and see this simply so they can say they don't like it too? ;)

RELEASE: July 17


LOST IN SPACE

You really have to wonder about the sanity of someone who thinks that
making a film based on a terribly bad old SF series is a wise move.

Still, the photographs look good, nice designs.   Plus there are some
solid actors in the cast (William Hurt, Gary Oldman).   Its piqued my
curiosity.

RELEASE: July 31


THE AVENGERS

One of my all time favourite TV series this.   Like the magazine, it
has Uma Thurmon in that tasty leather outfit.   I'm not sure that Ralph
(why do the English pronounce it Raif??) Fiennes looks the part for
Steed, but we shall see.   Sean Connery is usualy worth watching too.

I'm really looking forward to this one.

RELEASE: August


X-FILES: THE MOVIE

I will admit to being bored by the X-Files these days.   I absolutely
loved the first series and I enjoyed the second.   After that it
started to get a bit samey.   I'm in a minority though it seems so I
guess this will do well.

Shame they had to use the endless "conspiracy" plot instead of
something standalone though.

RELEASE: August 21


SPECIES 2

Well a lot of people thought the only good thing about Species 1 was
Natasha Henstridge with no clothes on.   Those people will be relieved
to know that the preview for this film was accompanied by a photo of
her wearing very little (well nothing really) strapped into some sort
of strange chair..

RELEASE: September


MIMIC

I hadn't heard about this one before.   It involves giant form-altering
bugs.   Doesn't sound VERY exciting.


RELEASE: June 26



--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:03:24 +0100
Subject: A pleasant surprise

Hi :)

Today while sorting through a pile of old magazines to see which to
keep, I discovered some book tokens.   40 worth in all!!

As you can imagine I'm rather happy.   Just need to find some books to
buy now. :)

Silly thing is that earlier in the day I bought Good Omens (Terry
Pratchet & Neil Gaimen) paying in cash.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:05:42 +0100
Subject: (Babylon 5 related) Finishing book 9, are there anyothers? (fwd)

Hi :)

Thought I'd forward this one in case anyone was following the B5 book
series.   I must admit I gave up on it some time back.

I am tempted though by the idea of a Peter David written novel.   I've
always been a fan of his comic book writing.

*** Forwarded message, originally written by Erez Zadok on 14-May-98
***

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Unavailable article: Message-ID
<6j2lbt$li5$2@plutonium.btinternet.com>

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: jmsatb5@aol.com (Jms at B5)
Date: 10 May 1998 14:35:09 -0600
Lines: 12

Del Rey Books will be coming out with a novelization of ThirdSpace in
a little
bit (also by Peter David), Yvonne Navarro has just started working on
the
novelization of The River of Souls, and John Gregory Keyes is doing
the first
planned original B5 trilogy around the birth of the Psi Corps (it
covers about
100 years), based on my outlines.   More are also in the works,
including
another trilogy based on the fall of Centauri Prime.

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
-***
-*** B5JMS SUBSCRIBERS: Replies to messages go to the list maintainer,
-*** .   If you want to reply elsewhere,
adjust
-*** the "To" field.   See http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ezk/b5jms/ for
all
-*** other information about this list.

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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AMIGA CHATTER: http://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
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From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:59:44 +0100
Subject: Re: Genre Films

Hi Eoghann

On 15-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>I'm not sure that Ralph   (why do the English pronounce it Raif??)
Fiennes looks the part for > Steed, but we shall see.  

Could it be for the same reason that the Scot's pronounce Eoghann
as Ewan ??     ;)))

/me ducks

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
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[RETURN TO TOP]



From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: A pleasant surprise
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:35:56 EDT


Good Omens
By Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett

With that referance to Good Omans I can't help but get on my soap
box and start preaching.   Good Omens is one of the funniest books ever
written about the Apocolypse.   It involves the Anti-christ, and a Demon
(who isn't so demonic) and an Angel who collects rare books as well as
the Eight Riders of the Apocolypse.   Thats all I'll say with out spoiling
it, but take my word it is awsome.

Jesse  

_____________________________________________________________________
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[RETURN TO TOP]



From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:35:56 EDT



I hafta diagree with your comment about the original "Lost in Space"
series.   True, The FX were hokey, and some of it was pure ham (like the
vegetable revolution.)   But on the whole it was a great show.

Jesse (the newbie)

_____________________________________________________________________
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[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "Teri Liston Piedrahita"
Subject: Dr. Brin
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:10:13 -0700

For those interested:

David Brin will be talking with us on Talk City on June 18th at 6pm Pacific
time (US) -8:00 GMT

For those with Java capability on the web go to:
http://www.talkcity.com/chat.htmpl?room=scifilit

For those who are familiar with IRC go to: server: chat.talkcity.com , port:
6777 , room #Scifilit

If you want more information please contact me directly.

Thanks


Teri Piedrahita ~ Special Events Producer
307 Orchard City Drive, Suite 350, Campbell Ca, 95008
Office: 408.871.3212 , Cell: 408.390.4527 , Fax: 408.871.0621
visit me at: www.talkcity.com , www.onnow.com and www.liveworld.com




[RETURN TO TOP]



Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:48:46 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Genre Films

And I thought it was pronounced "E -ogg- han'"!

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:05:51 PDT

All of those films (minus Godzilla and the Avengers) have already been
released in the US. I'm sure you can already buy a bootleg of those in
the UK.
Mimic was pretty cool. The concept was interesting. lotsa action and
things going *splat*.
Species 2 I haven't seen, but it looked sorta hokey.
Lost in space was a hokey movie, but the end was totally badass. I won't
ruin it for anyone who's not seen the film.
Godzilla. don't bother to go see it, it'll never be able to top the old
Japanese original.
so long.
Hey, and don't forget to go to http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial
next saturday. The first issue of our (my friend and I) science fiction
serial, Sometimes the Universes Seem Small , will be posted for all to
enjoy.
Chris Bobbitt

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[RETURN TO TOP]



From: "Pagan"
Subject: RE: Genre Films
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:39:29 +0900

Hello everyone

I've got a bit of a question here, quite unrelated to the current
discussions.

I'm currently doing research work in a Japanese university, and the thesis
I'm about to begin writing works on the relationship of Japanese science
fiction and images of Japan in Western science fiction. I'm still doing the
research bit, so I don't have a clear theme right now. Which leads to my
question. Would anyone know of good public domain materials I can use
regarding this general theme? Preferably written in English of course. While
I can manage with Japanese texts to some extent, it will take me less time
to work with a more familiar language. Thanks in advance.


Pagan
--------------------------------------------
"Pathological-techno-fetishist-with-social-deficit"
E-mail: pagan@college-of-chaos.net
Web Page: www.college-of-chaos.net/~pagan


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:12:58 +0100
Subject: Re: Genre Films

Hi David

On 15-May-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:
> And I thought it was pronounced "E -ogg- han'"!

Nope most definitely not !!

Ewan or Euan or even Euain....

Thats why I tend to stick to calling him Ego ;)

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
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[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Rachel Menzies
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:24:13 -0000
Subject: Re: Invasion: Earth

On 14-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>So what did those of you in the UK think of BBC Scotlands attempt at a
>Sci-Fi story?

I have watched the first 2 episodes now, the second one started okay but it
didn't really make we want to see what happened after it. Saying that
though I will probably watch the whole series and reserve my judgement for
then.

Hawker


[RETURN TO TOP]



From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:40:44 +0100
Subject: Who news

Hi :)

Just read this little snippet on the Doctor Who News Page

        http:www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/whonews.html

=====

In an interview with Doctor Who Magazine published in April, Segal confirmed
that discussions with the BBC were "ongoing", but pointed to both the ongoing
Daltenreys lawsuit against the BBC (see related article below) and political
and business conflicts which could hold matters up. He described the current
situation as "a great big wait and see".

Then, at the Cannes Film Festival on May 18th, David Thomson, Head of Film
and Single Drama, announced that the BBC are in early negotiations for a
"lavish" new Doctor Who feature film. A BBC spokesperson later added that,
due to the control Terry Nation's estate still holds on the Daleks, it was
unlikely they would appear in the film. This story is obviously just at its
preliminary stages; the Doctor Who News Page will keep a close eye on the
situation and add further details as they becomes available.

====

Philip Segal is the guy who did the 1996 tele-movie for the US market.
Seems you just can't kill some things. :)


--

Eoghann Irving

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:37:46 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Invasion: Earth

Hi Rachel Menzies :)

On 16-May-98, Rachel Menzies wrote:
> On 14-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>> So what did those of you in the UK think of BBC Scotlands attempt at a
>> Sci-Fi story?

> I have watched the first 2 episodes now, the second one started okay but it
> didn't really make we want to see what happened after it. Saying that
> though I will probably watch the whole series and reserve my judgement for
> then.

Just watched episode 2 and it did seem a bit weaker than the first.   Still
fanatic that I am I'll probably watch it all just "cos its SF". :)

Interestingly enough the writer's only previous TV work was the brilliant
"Cardiac Arrest".

For those who haven't seen it, think ER but with a really dark sense of humor
and none of the schmaltz. :)


--

Eoghann Irving

WEBSPINNER'S CORNER - website hosting, design & promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:30:56 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi adairian@juno.com :)

On 15-May-98, adairian@juno.com wrote:

> I hafta diagree with your comment about the original "Lost in Space"
> series.   True, The FX were hokey, and some of it was pure ham (like the
> vegetable revolution.)   But on the whole it was a great show.

Well if you like bad acting, loopy scripts and cute kids.... ;))


--

Eoghann Irving

WEBSPINNER'S CORNER - website hosting, design & promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:32:28 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: A pleasant surprise

Hi adairian@juno.com :)

On 15-May-98, adairian@juno.com wrote:

>                                 Good Omens
>                                 By Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett      

>         With that referance to Good Omans I can't help but get on my soap
> box and start preaching.   Good Omens is one of the funniest books ever
> written about the Apocolypse.   It involves the Anti-christ, and a Demon
> (who isn't so demonic) and an Angel who collects rare books as well as
> the Eight Riders of the Apocolypse.   Thats all I'll say with out spoiling
> it, but take my word it is awsome.

I was pleasantly surprised the first time I read it.   I don't actually find
Terry Pratchett very funny usually.   Just not my sense of humour I guess.
But I'm a fan of Neil Gaiman's work so I read it and found it very funny. :)

--

Eoghann Irving

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http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:35:04 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi Chris Bobbitt :)

On 16-May-98, Chris Bobbitt wrote:

> Mimic was pretty cool. The concept was interesting. lotsa action and
> things going *splat*.

And what more could you want in a film?   Don't answer that! ;)

> Godzilla. don't bother to go see it, it'll never be able to top the old
> Japanese original.

Well if you mean it won't have badly dubbed Japanese actors and some very
minor US actor in it just for export reasons.   You're probably right. :)

--

Eoghann Irving

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From: Luke Regan
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:37:45 +0500
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Invasion: Earth

On 18-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

:For those who haven't seen it, think ER but with a really dark sense of humor
:and none of the schmaltz. :)

Yeah but that's what a lot of people watch ER for.
BTW any idea when major things start to happen in B5 over here? I could sense
a build up of tension in Sunday's ep.

--
Cheers,
2nd Lieutenant Luke Regan
Aerotech.
Callsign: Vander.
email: lukeregan@thenet.co.uk



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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:44:08 EDT


Eoghann,
That was all part of the fun.   Of course it had nothing in the
way of actual substance.   But it was just a lot of fun to watch, and
enjoy.

Jesse

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:44:08 EDT


I have to support the original here.   The is no way that a bunch of
people running away from a realistic beast in color can be quite as funny
as all of those tiny little guys running away from a giant plastic
dinosaur.

Jesse

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:08:49 +0100
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #70 (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by scifi-lists@scifi.com on
19-May-98 ***
                                            Science Fiction Weekly
                              More than 40,000 registered readers!
                                        http://www.scifiweekly.com


-> THE SCI-FILE #70

This issue we have a sneak preview of the Dean Devlin/Roland Emmerich film
"Godzilla," and we also preview Fox's giant monster flick "Gargantua."   Our
regular reviews also focus on giant green things, including the Godzilla
Web site, the original Godzilla movie "Godzilla, King of the Monsters," and
the old Godzilla soundtracks, available for the first time in the United
States.   We also review new books from James Gunn and Paul J. McAuley, the
PC game "Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic" and more. This issue includes:
                 

-> NEWS OF THE WEEK
"Godzilla" set for record release, Robin Williams to do Asimov, The Sci-Fi
Channel announces original lineup, WB launches "Invasion America," and
more.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/news.html


-> OFF THE SHELF
James Gunn continues his historical anthology series with "The Road to
Science Fiction, Vol. 5," while Paul J. McAuley begins a new series with
"Child of the River."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/books.html


-> ON SCREEN
"Godzilla" is here!   Plus we look at Fox's giant monster telefilm
"Gargantua," and we check out the Sci-Fi Channel original movie "Sleeping
Dogs."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/screen.html


-> CLASSIC SCI-FI
"Godzilla" first stomped his way into theaters in 1956, but he wasn't quite
the fun-loving, amiable monster that would later duke it out with King
Kong.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/classic.html


-> SCI-FI SITE OF THE WEEK
The official "Godzilla" Web site is more than just a pretty Java applet and
a cool URL. It's a place where G-Fans can hobnob with the stars, and each
other.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/site.html


-> ANIME
"Giant Robo: The Night the Earth Stood Still, Vol. 2" continues the
surprisingly sophisticated story of a boy and his gigantic robot.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/anime.html


-> COOL SCI-FI STUFF
You've seen the "Godzilla" movies and visited the Web sites, but have you
listened to the soundtracks?   Probably not, if you're an American. But now
you can.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/cool.html


-> GAMES
Question: What kind of a game would you get if you crossed Douglas Adams
with Monty Python? Answer: "Starship Titanic."

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/games.html
                 
                 
-> LETTERS
Some of our readers rally to the defense of "Lucifer's Hammer," others
claim we should watch the skies for a real-life version of "Deep Impact,"
one person thinks we should apply the scientific method to our reviews, and
more.

                  http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/letters.html



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*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Eoghann Irving

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http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:55:08 +0100
Subject: B5 upcoming (no spoilers) (was Re[4]: Invasion: Earth)

Hi Luke :)

On 18-May-98, Luke Regan wrote:

> BTW any idea when major things start to happen in B5 over here? I could
sense
> a build up of tension in Sunday's ep.

Well I think all the really big stuff is held back till the second half of
this season.

Without giving too much away I can say to expect an unexpected twist in the
telepath story arc.

Oh, we should be getting the Neil Gaiman scripted epsiode soon.   Its a stand
alone one but should be interesting.

--

Eoghann Irving

WEBSPINNER'S CORNER - website hosting, design & promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web/
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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:27:13 PDT

Jesse,
Thank you! Finally, someone agrees with me on this.
Chris

Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/
And Now For Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:16:27 EDT

Chris,
Are we talking about the fantastic, if incredibly corny, "Lost in
Space" series,   Or the awsome original Godzilla's?

Jesse

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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:22:34 PDT

Jesse,
I was talking about Godzilla.
Chris
Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/
And Now For Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:14:00 EDT

Chris,
It is sad but true that fans of Godzilla among people who are
also fans of other, perhaps more serious Sci-fi and Fantasy are hard to
find.   But we exist, something that both you and I can attest to.

Jesse

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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:23:14 PDT

Jesse,
Tell me about it. I grew up with Godzilla. My best friend and I would
buy/rent/whatever all the movies and stay up all night watching them. It
was awesome because we were like 8.
Chris


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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:08:09 EDT

Chris,
I know, whenever a Godzilla flick was on Tv, I would make sure to
see it, even to the point of begging my parents to let me stay up.

Jesse

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:29 +0100
Subject: Sources of SF news on the net

Hi :)

I'd like to be able to post bits of SF news here the way I do with B5 and
Doctor Who.   However, in order to do that I need to find some sources.   So if
people know of any websites that keep uptodate on news for anything SF
related, let me know.

--
Eoghann Irving

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SOLAR FLARE                                             http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/



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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:17:56 +0100
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films

Hi Chris Bobbitt :)

On 21-May-98, Chris Bobbitt wrote:

> Tell me about it. I grew up with Godzilla. My best friend and I would
> buy/rent/whatever all the movies and stay up all night watching them. It
> was awesome because we were like 8.

Well I guess you two didn't go to see Godzilla, did anyone?

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:17:09 +0100
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films

Hi adairian@juno.com :)

On 19-May-98, adairian@juno.com wrote:

>         That was all part of the fun.   Of course it had nothing in the
> way of actual substance.   But it was just a lot of fun to watch, and
> enjoy.

You wouldn't happen to be a fan of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" and
"Land of the Giants" too would you? ;)

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Genre Films
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:06:56 EDT

Eoghann,
I never really got into those shows at all.   They were sightly
TOO mindless.


Jesse

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Genre Films
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:06:56 EDT

Eoghann,
Well, um, uh, er, no.
Jesse

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Genre Films
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:50:36 PDT


>Jesse
> I know, whenever a Godzilla flick was on Tv, I would make sure >to see
it, even to the point of begging my parents to let me stay up.

Monster flicks work best when they personofy a fear: Dracula,
Franenstien's Monster, even the original Godzilla represented the
Japanese (perfectly legitiment) fear of nuclear holocaust. Jurassic Park
played on our fears of science acting without regards to the possible
consequences (btw, I'm refering to the book 'natch.)

What does this new Godzilla play upon? A fear of losing New York city? I
mean really .. who would notice?
For that matter, what did ID4 play upon? Our fear or *really* hostile
alien army, all armed with collossal anal probes?
IMHO, the creators involved are mediocre hacks with tired ideas, atop
note FX team (who do the actual WORK) a narrow vision of the world and
inexplicably armed with budgets bigger than most third world countries'
GNP.  
Only if they, and most of Hollywood were buried under a volcano, smashed
by an asteroid and trampled by an irate iguana, would my faith in a
sensible universe be restored.

`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:16:54 +0100
Subject: Re: Genre Films

> "no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
> often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
> which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
> never to have read at all."
>                                                                                 ~C.S.Lewis~

Considering that the last time I tried to re-read the Chronicles of
Narnia I lost interest rather rapidly, that's an unfortunate thing
for him to say. :-)


Paul
--
---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ----
                        FidoNet: 2:254/60.11           2:442/103.13
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:56:37 +0100
Subject: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books

Hi :)

This is the top 20 SF and Fantasy books as voted for by people on the
internet.   The full list shows over 100, but I cut it short.   You can
find the full, updated list from a link on the website if you're
interested.

So, how many of these authors have you read and how many of the
specific books?

I have 10 authors and 7 books from the list.

Its something of a mystery to me though how Julian May got on the
list,   I've only read one book by that author and found it
spectacularly dull.

I am pleased thought that Gay Gavriel Kay is the only author to manage to get
two books onto the list. :)

=======================================================================
No |     Title                             |     Author                   | Score | Ave | #votes
=======================================================================
  1   Lord of the Rings                 J.R.R. Tolkien           8.83   8.83     (852)
  2   Ender 's Game                         Orson Scott Card       8.54   8.54     (735)
  3   Gormenghast                             Mervyn Peake               8.53   8.26       (38)
  4   Mirror Dance                           Lois M. Bujold           8.41   8.42       (74)
  5   Dune                                           Frank Herbert             8.36   8.36     (736)
  6   the White Rose                       Glen Cook                     8.35   8.67       (27)
  7   Tigana                                       Guy G. Kay                   8.34   8.37     (172)
  8   Men at Arms                             Terry Pratchett         8.30   8.31       (70)
  9   a Clockwork Orange               Anthony Burgess         8.28   8.46       (48)
10   Hyperion                                   Dan Simmons                 8.28   8.28     (367)
11   Flowers for Algernon           Daniel Keyes               8.26   8.23     (120)
12   Liege Killer                           Christopher Hinz       8.25   7.91       (35)
13   the Stars my Destination   Alfred Bester             8.24   8.24     (186)
14   the Lions of Al-Rassan       Guy G. Kay                   8.24   8.74       (46)
15   Metaconcert                             Julian May                   8.23   8.10       (49)
16   Lord of Light                         Roger Zelazny             8.22   8.20     (196)
17   the Gap into Madness           Stephen Donaldson     8.21   8.04       (55)
18   Way Station                             Clifford Simak           8.20   8.17     (124)
19   Alice in Wonderland             Lewis Carroll             8.20   8.13       (60)
20   Watership Down                       Richard Adams             8.20   8.29       (56)

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:36:54 +0100
Subject: Re[6]: Genre Films

Hi adairian@juno.com :)

On 24-May-98, adairian@juno.com wrote:
> Eoghann,
>         I never really got into those shows at all.   They were sightly
> TOO mindless.

I guess you saw something in Lost In Space that I missed then. :)

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:42:22 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi Paul :)

On 24-May-98, Paul Walker wrote:
>> "no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
>> often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
>> which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
>> never to have read at all."
>>                                                                                 ~C.S.Lewis~

> Considering that the last time I tried to re-read the Chronicles of
> Narnia I lost interest rather rapidly, that's an unfortunate thing
> for him to say. :-)

Have to disagree with you there.   I still enjoy the Narnia books.   Of course
as an adult you can look at them in a slightly different light taking into
account C S Lewis strong religious beliefs etc.

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:40:25 +0100
Subject: Re: Genre Films

Hi Matthew Webber :)

On 24-May-98, Matthew Webber wrote:

> What does this new Godzilla play upon? A fear of losing New York city? I
> mean really .. who would notice?

Well the people of New York might... ;)

My impression is though that the new Godzilla has no real pretensions to
being a horror film.   Well lets face it only the first Godzilla film could
claim that anyway.

> For that matter, what did ID4 play upon? Our fear or *really* hostile
> alien army, all armed with collossal anal probes?
> IMHO, the creators involved are mediocre hacks with tired ideas, atop
> note FX team (who do the actual WORK) a narrow vision of the world and
> inexplicably armed with budgets bigger than most third world countries'
> GNP.  

Well the reason that Hollywood likes them is that their budget is in fact
tiny compared to most directors.   Compare the budget for say Titanic with
that of Godzilla.   Small budget makes it much easier to make a profit.

> Only if they, and most of Hollywood were buried under a volcano, smashed
> by an asteroid and trampled by an irate iguana, would my faith in a
> sensible universe be restored.

SOOOOO.... You don't like hollywood then? ;))

Come on, they must have done one film you like.

--
Eoghann Irving

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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:06:22 PDT

Jesse,
I thought it was kinda cheezy how with "Godzilla vs. King Kong"(Jap) and
"King Kong vs. Godzilla"(Amer) even though the movies were predominantly
the same, King Kong wins in the American version and Godzilla wins in
the Japanese version.
Chris

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:27:56 PDT

>Paul Walker

>Considering that the last time I tried to re-read the Chronicles of
>Narnia I lost interest rather rapidly, that's an unfortunate thing
>for him to say. :-)

Well that's a matter of personal taste isn't it? v=) However the
statement still rings true on its own merits and doubley so considering
the number of people who read, and have re-read the Narnia series.  


`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:59:50 PDT

>Eoghann Irving

>My impression is though that the new Godzilla has no real pretensions
>to being a horror film.   Well lets face it only the first Godzilla
>film could claim that anyway.

I didn't say horror film .. I said monster film. I think its quite
interesting that in the ninties there are no real monsters anymore. The
Aliens have moved into Beverly Hills. Godzilla bought a condo
overlooking Central Park. Bigfoot moved in with the Hendersons. Dracula
is singing along to "Sympathy for the Devil' down at the local Kerriokie
bar.

Maybe we've grown to old for the monster under the bed. Maybe Bill Gates
replaced them all with superior software.

>[The creators of ID4 and Godzilla]
>Well the reason that Hollywood likes them is that their budget is in
>fact tiny compared to most directors.   Compare the budget for say
>Titanic with that of Godzilla.   Small budget makes it much easier to
>make a profit.

So its the old army saying then?   "Always remember that your equipment
was made by the lowest bidder."
Well of course they're cheap .. a computer needed to create those type
of FX is what, 20,000 maybe? Minimum wage for the programers (plus
Slushie allowance). Its not like they hired any writers .. and so when
they ask for fifty million, minus a few million on stars and promotion
.. they still have enough money to keep them in hookers and zit cream
for the rest of their lives.  

You do realize that their creative skills consist soley on the ability
to say inane things like "lets have Godzilla smash NY" -- "what if
aliens invaded earth" and their ever favorite "lets blow stuff up real
good!"
The results are like someone asked an entire arena of pro-wrestling fans
"What would be a meaningful movie for you and your kin?"
I'm not sure what scares me more .. the fact that someone gave these
frat brothers a movie contract, or the fact that soul-crushing trash
like ID4 was such a success.  


>SOOOOO.... You don't like hollywood then? ;))
>Come on, they must have done one film you like.

A big studio, true "Hollywood" film? Say since 1995? hmmmm ..
-L.A. Confidential,
-Donnie Brasco
I may have missed one. =)

But an SF film? fugetaboutit! Even the re-issues of StarWars were a
disapointment.

What we need is one solid earthquake to wipe the town off the map and
start over.


`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "Declan Kennedy"
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:59:59 +0100

>So, how many of these authors have you read and how many of the
>specific books?
>
>I have 10 authors and 7 books from the list.

I've read 9 authors and 9 books.

>Its something of a mystery to me though how Julian May got on the
>list,   I've only read one book by that author and found it
>spectacularly dull.

I quite enjoyed the Exiles Saga.

>I am pleased thought that Gay Gavriel Kay is the only author to manage to
>get two books onto the list. :)

Only reason I can claim to have read G.G.Kay is cuz you recommended the
books in question :-)

Great to see Gap into Madness in there...   I take it Covanant features in
the full 100?

--
Dex Kennedy

ICQ: 11528646
PAGER: 11528646@pager.mirabilis.com
Playstation Game Guides http://www.thenet.co.uk/~dexco/psx.html





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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:03:07 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books

Hi Dex :)

On 25-May-98, Declan Kennedy wrote:

>> I have 10 authors and 7 books from the list.

> I've read 9 authors and 9 books.

Thats tidy. :)

>> Its something of a mystery to me though how Julian May got on the
>> list,   I've only read one book by that author and found it
>> spectacularly dull.

> I quite enjoyed the Exiles Saga.

I gave up about halfway through.   :)

> Great to see Gap into Madness in there...   I take it Covanant features in
> the full 100?

Nope, though most of Donaldson's books have got a few votes, all the rest are
outside the top 100.

Its quite surprising the range of books in the full list.   Good Omens squeeks
in at 98.   Its tough to get into the top 100 it seems. :)


Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web        
WEBSPINNER - information on website hosting, design and promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
SOLAR FLARE - Amiga, Science Fiction, Writing and more


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:59:08 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi Matthew Webber :)

On 25-May-98, Matthew Webber wrote:
>> Eoghann Irving

>> My impression is though that the new Godzilla has no real pretensions
>> to being a horror film.   Well lets face it only the first Godzilla
>> film could claim that anyway.

> I didn't say horror film .. I said monster film.

So you did. But I associate Dracula and Frankenstien with horror personally.
I'm not sure that I could define a "monster" movie.  

> I think its quite
> interesting that in the ninties there are no real monsters anymore. The
> Aliens have moved into Beverly Hills. Godzilla bought a condo
> overlooking Central Park. Bigfoot moved in with the Hendersons. Dracula
> is singing along to "Sympathy for the Devil' down at the local Kerriokie
> bar.

I think the world simply woke up to the fact that no monster could really be
as scary as humans can be.

Its kind of hard to top a race who's children gun down each other etc.

>> [The creators of ID4 and Godzilla]
>> Well the reason that Hollywood likes them is that their budget is in
>> fact tiny compared to most directors.   Compare the budget for say
>> Titanic with that of Godzilla.   Small budget makes it much easier to
>> make a profit.

> So its the old army saying then?   "Always remember that your equipment
> was made by the lowest bidder."
> Well of course they're cheap .. a computer needed to create those type
> of FX is what, 20,000 maybe? Minimum wage for the programers (plus
> Slushie allowance). Its not like they hired any writers .. and so when
> they ask for fifty million, minus a few million on stars and promotion

The interesting thing is that previous to Godzilla, they used a wide variety
of FX, not just computer generated ones.   They simply spend money
efficiently.

They may not be much when it comes to storytelling, but they are far better
managers than James Cameron or Spielberg will ever be.

> A big studio, true "Hollywood" film? Say since 1995? hmmmm ..
> -L.A. Confidential,
> -Donnie Brasco
> I may have missed one. =)

Both good films by all accounts.  

> But an SF film? fugetaboutit! Even the re-issues of StarWars were a
> disapointment.

I would have thought that a re-issue of that sort would be bound to
disappoint anyone who actually remembered seeing the original in the cinema.
I was pretty young when I saw a Star Wars/Empire Strikes Back double bill.   I
doubt thats a feeling you can ever get back.

> What we need is one solid earthquake to wipe the town off the map and
> start over.

It could be worse.   You could have the British film industry, which only
twigged about 4 years ago that it was okay to make films which weren't
"Gritty kitchen sink dramas about how tough life is".

Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web        
WEBSPINNER - information on website hosting, design and promotion
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:48:11 +0100
Subject: Re[4]: Genre Films

Hi Chris Bobbitt :)

On 24-May-98, Chris Bobbitt wrote:
> Jesse,
> I thought it was kinda cheezy how with "Godzilla vs. King Kong"(Jap) and
> "King Kong vs. Godzilla"(Amer) even though the movies were predominantly
> the same, King Kong wins in the American version and Godzilla wins in
> the Japanese version.

I didn't know they'd done that.   I wonder which version they showed in the
UK?


Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

Want to chat about Fantasy and Science Fiction   ?
FSF Mailing list - http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/
Browse the SOLAR FLARE bookshop
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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[5]: Genre Films
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:42:03 PDT



>> I thought it was kinda cheezy how with "Godzilla vs. King Kong"(Jap)
and
>> "King Kong vs. Godzilla"(Amer) even though the movies were
predominantly
>> the same, King Kong wins in the American version and Godzilla wins in
>> the Japanese version.
>
>I didn't know they'd done that.   I wonder which version they showed in
the
>UK?
>
>

I'd guess the Japanese version but I can't say for sure.

Chris Bobbitt
Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/
And Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:13:22 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Genre Films

I don't expect the same things from a movie that I do from a novel. The
FX in novels tend to be a bit sparse; if you don't have good writing
and/or good ideas, you've got nothing. Remember John Campbells novel
about the giant interplanetary propeller-driven planets? A silly idea,
but a fun one. Movies CAN have FX, scantily clad actresses, and
beautiful scenery, so they tend to not worry about plotting. It's a
tradeoff. Besides, in terms of what you can pack into it, a movie is
equivalent to a short story, not a novel, and short stories tend to have
some of the same plot-deficiency difficulties that movies have. Still,
every now and then someone makes a movie that would be good even when
rated against the standards applied to novels.

David Kopaska-Merkel

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:21:25 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Genre Films

I don't think the Narnia books work well as adults, but then I don't
agree with the quote from C. S. Lewis either. Some books are best read
before you know how the world works because they depend on a mental
state adult readers can remember but can no longer find enthusiasm for.
The equivalent books for adults create the same feeling by working with
(and around reality) instead of blazing right through it like you can
for children. I don't think this is a diminishment in adults, as many
have claimed, merely a difference. After all, there are many things we
can appreciate now we couldn't understand then.

I think the Narnia books are at the edge of the "Kids Only" category.
The "Alice" books though, retain their vibrancy.

David Kopaska-Merkel

Matthew Webber wrote:
>
> >Paul Walker
>
> >Considering that the last time I tried to re-read the Chronicles of
> >Narnia I lost interest rather rapidly, that's an unfortunate thing
> >for him to say. :-)
>
> Well that's a matter of personal taste isn't it? v=) However the
> statement still rings true on its own merits and doubley so considering
> the number of people who read, and have re-read the Narnia series.
>
> `,,``,,``,,`,,
> "no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
> often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
> which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
> never to have read at all."
>                                                                                 ~C.S.Lewis~
>                                           _____________________
> Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
> The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
> >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at >http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:24:22 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books

I've read 10 to 12 of those books (2 I'm not sure of). It seems a
reasonable list, with a few notable exceptions. I liked Gormenghast, but
I'm really surprised it made the list; I know no one else who liked it,
and few who've even read it.

David Kopaska-Merkel

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:31:07 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Genre Films

I liked "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea," but the book was better.
Still, I think the movie captured a little of the flavor of the
novel.Then again, it's been a very long time since I saw it.

David Kopaska-Merkel

Eoghann Irving wrote:
>
> Hi adairian@juno.com :)
>
> On 19-May-98, adairian@juno.com wrote:
>
> >         That was all part of the fun.   Of course it had nothing in the
> > way of actual substance.   But it was just a lot of fun to watch, and
> > enjoy.
>
> You wouldn't happen to be a fan of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" and
> "Land of the Giants" too would you? ;)
>
> --
> Eoghann Irving
>
> FANTASY & SF MAILING LIST                 >http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/
> SOLAR FLARE                                             >http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/

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Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:56:17 +0100
From: Simon Forrester

David Kopaska-Merkel quoted someone else quoting CS Lewis. So, I suppose,
CS Lewis wrote:

>> "no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
>> often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
>> which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
>> never to have read at all."
>>                                                                                 ~C.S.Lewis~

But that means, then, that there are books out there which it's better
not to read. On an entertainment level that's true, but that's a bit of a
scary blanket statement, isn't it?

simon.forrester@futurenet.com - online editor
                  alt email: simon_forrester@yahoo.com
                      www.culttv.co.uk - www.sfnet.co.uk
                                        homepage: www.hairy.co.uk



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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:11:44 +0100
Subject: Re[7]: Genre Films

Hi Chris :)

On 26-May-98, Chris Bobbitt wrote:

> Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
> >http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/

Which reminded me to add your link to the FSF website.   Should be up by the
time you see this. :)


Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

Want to chat about Fantasy and Science Fiction   ?
FSF Mailing list - http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/
Browse the SOLAR FLARE bookshop
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:50:29 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi David :)

On 26-May-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> I don't think the Narnia books work well as adults, but then I don't
> agree with the quote from C. S. Lewis either. Some books are best read
> before you know how the world works because they depend on a mental
> state adult readers can remember but can no longer find enthusiasm for.
> The equivalent books for adults create the same feeling by working with
> (and around reality) instead of blazing right through it like you can
> for children. I don't think this is a diminishment in adults, as many
> have claimed, merely a difference. After all, there are many things we
> can appreciate now we couldn't understand then.

I can't say I agree with you on that.   I can't think of any books that I
thought were really good when I was a child that I don't still enjoy.   Not
all in the same way, but I do enjoy them.   Mind you I read The Lord of the
Rings when I was 9 or 10.

I also have a rather ambivalent attitude towards reality and the importance
people place on it. :)

Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web        
WEBSPINNER - information on website hosting, design and promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:56:03 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books

Hi David   :)

On 26-May-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> I've read 10 to 12 of those books (2 I'm not sure of). It seems a
> reasonable list, with a few notable exceptions. I liked Gormenghast, but
> I'm really surprised it made the list; I know no one else who liked it,
> and few who've even read it.

I think that a clue to the sort of people who vote may be gleaned from the
fact that InterZone hosts the list.   A large section of the voters may be
part
of the SF "elite".   The part that reads a wide range of sf short fiction etc.

InterZone is a great mag, but with a readership of something like 3000 we're
definately talking of a specialist audience.

Gormenghast is a book that I absolutely loathe.   But I won't deny that its
brilliantly written.

Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web        
WEBSPINNER - information on website hosting, design and promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:01:09 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi Simon   :)

On 26-May-98, Simon Forrester wrote:
> David Kopaska-Merkel quoted someone else quoting CS Lewis. So, I suppose,
> CS Lewis wrote:

>>> "no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
>>> often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
>>> which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
>>> never to have read at all."
>>>                                                                                 ~C.S.Lewis~

> But that means, then, that there are books out there which it's better
> not to read. On an entertainment level that's true, but that's a bit of a
> scary blanket statement, isn't it?

Oh I don't know.   Have you looked at the bestseller list for general fiction
these days?   I might even be able to make a case for book burning based on
some
of that stuff?

Seriously though, the only way to know if a book is worth reading is to read
it.   Which is why I do try to finish books even if I don't like them.   Same
with films.   I don't really approve of walking out part way through.   I watch
the entire thing, then slag it off. :)

C.S. Lewis was a peculiar chap. I don't think I'd base my life round his.


Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

Want to chat about Fantasy and Science Fiction   ?
FSF Mailing list - http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/
Browse the SOLAR FLARE bookshop
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:57:15 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Genre Films

Hi David :)

On 26-May-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> I liked "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea," but the book was better.
> Still, I think the movie captured a little of the flavor of the
> novel.Then again, it's been a very long time since I saw it.

The movie, if memory serves, was much more serious than the series.   It did
at least attempt to capture some feel of claustrophobia aboard a submarine.

Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/web        
WEBSPINNER - information on website hosting, design and promotion
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
SOLAR FLARE - Amiga, Science Fiction, Writing and more


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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:53 PDT

Eoghann,
Thanks for adding the link.

*****EVERYBODY ON THE LIST*****
  THE FIRST ISSUE IS UP!!!!!!
  GO READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*******************************

Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/

Chris Bobbitt
Sometimes The Universes Seem Small
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/scifiserial/
And Now For Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark/

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:25:37 EDT

Chris,
I only saw the American vision, and I thought that it was kind of
pushing things.   King Kong was portrayed as misunderstood in the original
film, whereas in the Vs. Godzilla flick he was just a monster.

Jesse

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:25:37 EDT

Matthew,
I love the Lewis quote, but I have to disagree with you about the
lack of skill in modern SCI-FI movie writing.   I'll grant you Godzilla.
But take Deep Impact.   We just recently had a scare about a massive
meteor hitting Earth, and we're resonably sure that it has happened
before, why not again.   As for ID4, can't we on occation just have a good
time, and watch the good guys kick the bad guys ass.

Jesse

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From: adairian@juno.com
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:25:37 EDT

All,
I managed to keep quiet reading through the past couple e-mails,
but no longer!!!   First of all I have always loved narnia, and while I
guess I still qualify as a child (15) I see them as exemplery of timeless
literature.
Now I can see where Mathew is comeing from and I have made the
same complaints myself on occasion I have to disagree.   The Monster that
the human race faces right now is itself, and that is what these films
were about.   ID4 wasn't just about the aliens, it was abou everybody
pulling together at the end for one last, (most likely fruitless) assult.

Jesse

PS If you want to read a really good book about aliens, read Niven and
Pournelle's Footfall.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: SIG quote
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:10:12 PDT

>From: David Kopaska-Merkel

>I don't think the Narnia books work well as adults, but then I don't
>agree with the quote from C. S. Lewis either. Some books are best >read
before you know how the world works because they depend on a >mental
state adult readers can remember but can no longer find >enthusiasm for.

No offense David, but what an odd statement. Children's books, at least
the good ones remain timeless classics. They, by nessecity, teach
complex lessons in simple ways. It adds a poignacy and beautiful
simplicty that most adult writeres could write if their lives depended
on it.

I think the stigma comes from the fact that these are CHILDREN'S books,
very few adults want to be seen sitting on a bus reading "Charlotte's
Web", but having just completed a Kiddy Lit course in university last
year, I was remined at how meaningful, well writting most kiddy lit is
(at least here in Canada, where the market is small, but world-renowed).
In a well crafted novel, children's or otherwise there should be layers
of meaning. Re-reading a book allows you to access those other layers.
Re-read such books as "Watership Down", "Hobbit" and "Wind in the
Willows", as an adult and you might be surprised at what is going on
below the surface.

If you can't work up the enthusiasm to re-read a novel you read in
youth, it more than likely proves C.S.Lewis' point that the book wasn't
that good in the first place.

All that being said though, I don't think that you should not have read
it in the first place... unless maybe it was written by Hickman//Weiss.
Anything else that gets kids reading and away from the TV for five
minutes is okay by me.

>I think the Narnia books are at the edge of the "Kids Only" category.
>The "Alice" books though, retain their vibrancy.

There is A LOT going on under the surface of those Narnia books. And
Alice, well hey, to me that will always be the Victorian "Fear and
Loathing in Las Vegas". =)


`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:31:30 PDT

Jesse

> I love the Lewis quote, but I have to disagree with you about >the
lack of skill in modern SCI-FI movie writing.   I'll grant you >Godzilla.
But take Deep Impact.   We just recently had a scare about a >massive
meteor hitting Earth, and we're resonably sure that it has >happened
before, why not again.

Apparently the original script for Deep Impact was more humanistic,
powerful and deeply moving. They cut most of that to add more FX shots.
"Look PA! Lottsa exposions!" It wasn't a bad movie ... though I
did spend most of the time hoping most of the cast would wind up at
ground zero .. In the end I walked out of the theatre wondering if there
could hace been more, my conclusion was, yes. There have been so many
good novels on the same subject... and then my mind flips, and cringes
in the corner when I think about "Contact" .. and I wonder if Hollywood
will ever again make a good, adult SF movie.

> As for ID4, can't we on occation just have a good time, and watch >the
good guys kick the bad guys ass.

My lengthy list of personal dislikes on ID4 aside, I get this argument
alot. "Well it is just supposed to be entertainment, stop analysing it
so much."   Honestly, this mystifies me. To me, being entertained does
not mean turning my mind off for two hours .. isn't that a form of
sensory deprevation?   While I'm not a raving intelectual, I can't help
thinking about a movie after I've seen it. Talking about a movie in the
bar with my friends afterwards is half the fun and there is only so many
ways you can say "well, it had nice FX."


`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:43:59 PDT

Jesse
>All,
> I managed to keep quiet reading through the past couple >e-mails, but
no longer!!!   First of all I have always loved narnia, >and while I
guess I still qualify as a child (15) I see them as >exemplery of
timeless literature.

Here here! =) And the fact remains, the Narnia series IS "timeless
literature." I think its a pretty safe bet that Goosebumps won't last
past the turn of the century.

> Now I can see where Mathew is comeing from and I have made the
>same complaints myself on occasion I have to disagree.   The Monster
>that the human race faces right now is itself, and that is what these
>films were about.  

Heck, even the original Godzilla was about the horrors of the atomic age
... the most recent one is about ..... $$$$!


>ID4 wasn't just about the aliens, it was about everybody pulling
>together at the end for one last, (most likely fruitless) assult.

No, it was pretty much about MacIntosh using aliens. =) It was, IMHO,
casually racist, American-centric, poccessed of an improbable plot, and
generally boring. It would be the worst SF movie this decace, but then
Starship Troopers and Even Horizon came out....      


>PS If you want to read a really good book about aliens, read Niven >and
Pournelle's Footfall.

Thank you! The name of that book has alluded me for days. It was driving
me nuts! Somewhere in India: "Why'd it get so dark all of a sudden?"



`,,``,,``,,`,,
"no book is really worth reading at age 10 which is not equally or
often far more worth reading at age 50. The only imaginative works
which ought be grown out of are those which it would have been better
never to have read at all."
                                                                              ~C.S.Lewis~
                                        _____________________
Matthew Webber                     helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


______________________________________________________
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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:57:28 PDT

>> I didn't say horror film .. I said monster film.
>So you did. But I associate Dracula and Frankenstien with horror
>personally. I'm not sure that I could define a "monster" movie.  

I wouldn't go and call it a specifc genre, but there are movies, horror
or SF with monsters in them. Monsters are, and always have been, most
effective when they represent something. The Alien, the dinosaurs of
Jurrasic park, the first Godzilla, Dracula, Frankenstien's monster ..
they all represent something. This latest incarnation of Godzilla
represents .... all I can come up with is "Hollywood thinks we're
stupid"

>I think the world simply woke up to the fact that no monster could
>really be as scary as humans can be.

No, I think its hours of drivvel on TV sucking away our imagination, and
understanding of metaphor.




>>> [The creators of ID4 and Godzilla]

>The interesting thing is that previous to Godzilla, they used a wide
>variety of FX, not just computer generated ones.   They simply spend
>money efficiently.
>They may not be much when it comes to storytelling, but they are far
>better managers than James Cameron or Spielberg will ever be.

Run for the hills ... the accountants are running the show.
Its incredible that two nerds such as they, who do seem to have an
genuine enthusiasm for all thinks geeky, have missed the point so
completely.


>It could be worse.   You could have the British film industry, which
>only twigged about 4 years ago that it was okay to make films which
>weren't "Gritty kitchen sink dramas about how tough life is".

Gotta wonder who is green lighting all this crap eh? =)

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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100
Subject: To Hold Infinity

Hi,

Anyone else read this? If not, I can really recommend it. It might
not be for everyone's taste (read past the beginning, at least -
things get a little calmer), but if you like Snow Crash, Iain M Banks
and so on it's probably a fair bet you'll like it.

Either way, it's a very well written book, with some excellent
world-building (and ideas! I want to write the code!), especially
considering it's John Meaney's debut novel.

(Before anyone asks: yes, he is the brother of the ST actor.)


Paul
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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Genre Films

> I also have a rather ambivalent attitude towards reality and the importance
> people place on it. :)

Reality is unimportant. :) I just have a different preference for the
way I escape it now.


Paul
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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100
Subject: Chung Kuo

Hi,

Anyone else read this series? (By David Wingrove.)

Paul
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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Top 20 Fantasy & SF books

> Its something of a mystery to me though how Julian May got on the
> list,   I've only read one book by that author and found it
> spectacularly dull.

>     1   Lord of the Rings                 J.R.R. Tolkien           8.83   8.83     (852)
>     2   Ender 's Game                         Orson Scott Card       8.54   8.54     (735)
>     5   Dune                                           Frank Herbert             8.36   8.36     (736)
>     8   Men at Arms                             Terry Pratchett         8.30   8.31       (70)
>   11   Flowers for Algernon           Daniel Keyes               8.26   8.23     (120)

exact match, and

>   15   Metaconcert                             Julian May                   8.23   8.10       (49)
>   17   the Gap into Madness           Stephen Donaldson     8.21   8.04       (55)
>     4   Mirror Dance                           Lois M. Bujold           8.41   8.42    

author match.

Maybe trying to eat ice-cream while doing email isn't such a good
idea.

Paul
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From: "Paul Walker"
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100
Subject: Re: Genre Films


> I don't think the Narnia books work well as adults, but then I don't
> agree with the quote from C. S. Lewis either. Some books are best read
> before you know how the world works because they depend on a mental
> state adult readers can remember but can no longer find enthusiasm for.

I think that's a fair summing up. I loved the books when I was
younger; now, as a [young?] adult, the children all appear impossibly
twee (I'd kill them within five minutes if I was in the same house).
The setting itself I still applaud - it's constructed very well - but
the characters lose something.

I'm not sure if this says more about Lewis or me. ;)

> for children. I don't think this is a diminishment in adults, as many
> have claimed, merely a difference. After all, there are many things we
> can appreciate now we couldn't understand then.

At least one book I read while younger I've recently re-read, and so
much more came out.

Can't remember the name, however. :/

Paul
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:38:45 +0100
Subject: List archiving

Hi :)

Got an interesting new subscriber today.   Its the list archiver for
Reference.com

Reference.com is similar to Deja-News in that it archives newsgroup postings
and allows you to search them.   But it also does some mailing lists.
Including this one now. :)


Have fun
--
Eoghann Irving

Want to chat about Fantasy and Science Fiction   ?
FSF Mailing list - http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/
Browse the SOLAR FLARE bookshop
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann


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Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:15:19 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Genre Films

Lloyd Biggle, Jr. wrote a book, I think it was called "The World
Menders," that had a really enthralling set of aliens. But they weren't
invading us. We were spying on them. It was serialized in Analog,
probably in the early 70s, and I don't know if it came out in book form,
but it should have.

Footfall was a good alien invader story alright; the aliens were so
cute! I liked Christopher Anvil's "Pandora's Planet." Just adventurous
fun, but lots of fun. Those aliens were so cute too: they looked like
bipedal lions.

David Kopaska-Merkel


>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at >http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:24:55 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: SIG quote

Matthew:   You've got a good point, but maybe I didn't write clearly in
my previous post. I was referring to only certain children's books (and
for me the Narnia books are in this category) which just aren't as good
when reread. I know there was plenty below the surface of the Narnia
books, but there's too much hoakum mixed in with the good stuff for me.

The Wind in the Willows and the Hobbit are two obvious examples of
children's books in the other category ... those which are just as good
when you're an adult. We have 2 kids, and about 700 children's books,
and there are quite a few that I still reread on my own when I have the
time. But there are some that just aren't the same. I think books like
the Hardy Boys series were fun for an 8 year old, but I could never
reread them and enjoy them.

And of course, if you enjoyed a book when you read it, then you should
have read it. There are many adult books I'm glad I read, but will never
read again. Others I've read 10 times or more, such as Lord of Light and
The Lord of the Rings.

David Kopaska-Merkel  

Matthew Webber wrote:
>
> >From: David Kopaska-Merkel
>
> >I don't think the Narnia books work well as adults, but then I don't
> >agree with the quote from C. S. Lewis either. Some books are best >read
> before you know how the world works because they depend on a >mental
> state adult readers can remember but can no longer find >enthusiasm for.
>
> No offense David, but what an odd statement. Children's books, at least
> the good ones remain timeless classics. They, by nessecity, teach
> complex lessons in simple ways. It adds a poignacy and beautiful
> simplicty that most adult writeres could write if their lives depended
> on it.
>
> I think the stigma comes from the fact that these are CHILDREN'S books,
> very few adults want to be seen sitting on a bus reading "Charlotte's
> Web", but having just completed a Kiddy Lit course in university last
> year, I was remined at how meaningful, well writting most kiddy lit is
> (at least here in Canada, where the market is small, but world-renowed).
> In a well crafted novel, children's or otherwise there should be layers
> of meaning. Re-reading a book allows you to access those other layers.
> Re-read such books as "Watership Down", "Hobbit" and "Wind in the
> Willows", as an adult and you might be surprised at what is going on
> below the surface.
>
> If you can't work up the enthusiasm to re-read a novel you read in
> youth, it more than likely proves C.S.Lewis' point that the book wasn't
> that good in the first place.
>
> All that being said though, I don't think that you should not have read
> it in the first place... unless maybe it was written by Hickman//Weiss.
> Anything else that gets kids reading and away from the TV for five
> minutes is okay by me.
>
> >I think the Narnia books are at the edge of the "Kids Only" category.
> >The "Alice" books though, retain their vibrancy.
>
> There is A LOT going on under the surface of those Narnia books. And
> Alice, well hey, to me that will always be the Victorian "Fear and
> Loathing in Las Vegas". =)

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