FSF-LIST DIGEST

02/04/1998 TO 09/04/1998


[ Summary of subjects in this digest 43 messages in all ]

Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: Final warning ;)
Subject: Mailinglist Stats
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 was a rascist film!
Subject: Re[2]: New
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 was a cool film!
Subject: Re[2]: List news
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author
Subject: Website
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: Re[2]: New
Subject: Re[4]: New
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Subject: The Drawing of the Dark (was Re Same world, different author)
Subject: ATTN JMS: Bruce B and Cast Turmoil? (fwd)
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author
Subject: Tim Powers
Subject: Oktober
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: RE: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Subject: Re: New
Subject: Re: New
Subject: Online fiction(was: New)
Subject: Fiction webzine (was: New)
Subject: Re: Fiction webzine (was: New)
Subject: remove
Subject: Re: New
Subject: new online fiction to be started
Subject: Re[2]: New
Subject: JMS Confirms Crusade a Go! (fwd)
Subject: Re: new online fiction to be started
Subject: brief outage
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #67 (fwd)
Subject: new online fiction to be started
Subject: new online fiction to be started


Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:08:44 +0100 (BST)
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Same world, different author

Horrors! You haven't read either Haldeman or McIntyre? You really ought
to rectify that problem at once. The Forever War is one of Haldeman's
better books, but I haven't read a bad one. I haven't read too many of
Vonda McIntyre's books, but I've enjoyed all those I've read.

Since you like fantasy, I presume you've read Tim Powers? In my opinion,
the best living horror-fantasy author. Period. No one does magic better.
David

>
> > For the sake of posterity my purchases were:
>
> > The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.
>
> Let us know what you think of this. I keep hearing about this book and
> I've always meant to read it. I like the idea.
>
> > Dream Snake by Vonda McIntyre, (shock, horror, it's a Fantasy novel! I
> > must qualify this purchase by saying that McIntyre, unlike so many,
> > learnt to write beautiful lyrical prose before publishing).
> > Fireflood and other stories, short story collection by McIntyre.
>
> You know I still haven't read a book by Vonda McIntyre. Which is quite
> surprising considering the number she's written.
>
> --

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:34:24 -0600
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Final warning ;)

Thanks for using NetForward!
http://www.netforward.com
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v

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--> Coollist - http://www.coollist.com/advertise.htm
---------------------------------------------------------

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:45:20 +0100
Subject: Mailinglist Stats

Hi :)

Well now that we have a new listserver, and very soon a new web site, I
thought it was time to bring back the list stats in a new and improved
form.


FSF POSTING STATS

FROM NUMBER %
========================================================================
Eoghann Irving 34 50%
"Andy Reynolds" 14 20.58%
David Kopaska-Merkel 6 8.82%
"Paul Walker" 4 5.88%
Teri Liston Piedrahita 3 4.41%
Simon Forrester 2 2.94%
"Pagan" 2 2.94%
"John Morrison" 1 1.46%
Adrian 1 1.46%
"Matthew Webber" 1 1.46%


SUBJECT NUMBER %
========================================================================

Same world, different author 22 32.35%
New 13 19.11%
Fiction woes 6 8.82%
Blimey! 6 8.82%
Another review 4 5.88%
shameless plug 3 4.41%
List news 2 2.94%
ID4 was a cool film! 2 2.94%
Prey 2 2.94%
Test post 1 1.46%
Book Review 2 1 1.46%
Book Review 1 1.46%
Final warning ;) 1 1.46%
A review a day... stops me getting bored 1 1.46%
ID4 was a rascist film! 1 1.46%
Tome of Eternity (fwd) 1 1.46%
THE SCI-FILE #66 (fwd) 1 1.46%



--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:01:46 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 was a rascist film!

Hi :)
On 02-Apr-98, Matthew Webber wrote:
>> Eoghann Irving

>> The subject for debate is...
>> Films like ID4 are just as /good/ as films like BladeRunner and
2001.

>> Okay folks, I just cobbled that together, now rip it apart. :)

Aha, a new voice to our discussions, welcome :)

> What I disliked, intensly, were the characterizations that were so
> stereotyped as to be rascist. the man of action and muscle black and
his
> stripper girlfriend (single mother no less), the wise old jew, the
> computer geek jew, ... all led by the fearless, dedicated family
man,
> White guy.
> The other sterotypes; The burned-out, white trash vet, and the
> flamboyant homosexual weren't quite racist, but did go far in
> highlighting the sheer lack of imagination that went into the
writing.

I hadn't really looked at this as a racist thing actually. Certainly
its a bunch of cliches. The characters were one-dimensional cyphers.

> The "up with America" attitude, while expected, was tiresome.
Anyone
> else notice that the Aliens didn't attack Canada at all? There is a
> scence somewhere that shows all the cities with ships above them ...
not
> one north of New York. No doubt because the aliens new that the
people
> up in Toronto would be to busy complaining that their cable just cut

> out.

Well I tend to expect a pro-American attitude from an american film.
Although there are a few expceptions.

To be fair though I tend to expect a pro-British attitude from British
films and thats usually the case too. :)


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:58:13 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: New

Hi :)

On 02-Apr-98, Pagan wrote:

> With regards to quality, I don't see why it cabn't be possible to
impose
> strict manuscript guidelines on electronic submissions similar to
the
> formatting guidelines of snail submissions. Maybe restrict the
document
> formats available, or even strictly flat ASCII. From there, standard
> necessary style rules.

Well my editing experience is nill, but my experience of electronic
document formats is substantial.

For a webzine I'd actually recommend RTF format. Its basically text
so its highly compressable, its a standard in pretty much all
wordprocessors and it allows you to put in basic formatting like
bold, underline etc.

That would allow the editor to create a basic template for authors to
follow and save time reformatting later on.

That probably wouldn't work for a print magazine due to using DTP
programs though.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI

MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
Mail me for details.


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:51:59 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 was a cool film!

Hi :)

On 01-Apr-98, John Morrison wrote:

> Hello Ego and everyone else, Its good to see the list up and running
again.

> After our extended discussions about sci-fi films and in particular,
> BladeRunner did you think this thread would start something similar?

Something like that. But mainly I was just hoping to broaden the topics to
include other aspects of SF as well as books.

>> Films like ID4 are just as /good/ as films like BladeRunner and 2001.

> What is good and what isn't I suppose is down to personal opinion. I
think
> in comparing films it is better to break them down into separate
elements.

Makes sense.

> Obviously the special effects in ID4 are more impressive than the other
two
> films you mention. On the other hand the story for ID4 is nowhere near as
> involved as the other two films.

On the other hand you could argue that due to the fact that the other two
were made about 20 years ago, its unfair to directly compare the effects.

As you say the story if ID4 was much more simplistic. But is that a
*fault*
or just a difference?

>> A film should be judged primarily by two things. What it intends to
>> achieve, and what it actually achieves.

> I think it should basically be judged on how much you enjoyed it and how
> much you get out of it. It's difficult to know what a film is trying to
> achieve without talking to the people that made it.

Hmm. Well sometimes thats the case, but surely anyone who had seen a
trailer for ID4 had a pretty good idea what they were going to get for
their money?

>> Thus a film like ID4 which aimed to be an entertaining action flick can
be
>> said to be a good film. People got what they expected to from it.

> Well, what about the people that weren't in the know and didn't know what
to
> expect. It would be interesting to hear their comments.

I'm not sure if that argument stands up because there are so many ways to
find out about a film (magazines, tv, radio, the net). If someone chooses
not to bother then don't they have to accept the risk that they won't like
the film they end up going to see?

>> Objecting to supposed plot holes, or the "realism" of certain aspects of
>> such a film rather misses the point and is really used as a method of
>> justifying an instinctive dislike for the film

> I agree there - although I think the plot holes enhanced my enjoyment of
the
> film. The aliens using the same operating system as a Apple Mac laptop
for
> instance.

Well I could give you a detailed explanation of how they could
/theoretically/ make that work... But it'd be dull. Which is probably why
they didn't in the film.
:)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:03:39 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: List news

Hi :)

On 02-Apr-98, Pagan wrote:

>> You might be interested to know that there are 52 people on this
list.
>> Hard to believe given the current traffic, but true.

> Well, it appears that a lot of people, like myself, have just been
lurking
> and reading. Well, I'll try and write from now as I can manage, but
being a
> tad bit new here, I'm still working my way to it.

Well I don't want to stop people lurking. They're free to read or
write, whichever they prefer. But if we all lurk its going to be hard
to discuss things. :)


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI

MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:11:14 -0600
From: Teri Liston Piedrahita
Subject: Re: Same world, different author

At 09:55 AM 4:2:98, you wrote:

>Horrors! You haven't read either Haldeman or McIntyre? You really ought

>to rectify that problem at once. The Forever War is one of Haldeman's


ForeverWar was a book that was good and haunting. I could not put it down and it has stayed with me for a long, long time.


Forever Peace is nearly as good and shows some real maturaty from the first novel. I had the pleasure of interviewing Joe on the occasion of the reason of "Forever Peace". He's an amazing man.


>better books, but I haven't read a bad one. I haven't read too many of

>Vonda McIntyre's books, but I've enjoyed all those I've read.


Put me in the corner with the Dunces, I've never read McIntyre either.

I'm adding VOnda to my must read list


Teri




=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Teri Liston Piedrahita

Special Events Producer

.

Liveworld Productions

307 Orchard City Dr. #304

Campbell, CA 95008

(408) 871-3212 (office)

(408) 871-0621 (fax)

(408) 984-0202 (home)

(408) 390-4527 (cell)


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:08:39 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author

Hi :)

On 02-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> Horrors! You haven't read either Haldeman or McIntyre? You really
ought
> to rectify that problem at once. The Forever War is one of
Haldeman's
> better books, but I haven't read a bad one. I haven't read too many
of
> Vonda McIntyre's books, but I've enjoyed all those I've read.

Well in the case of Haldeman I've simply never seen a copy of any of
his books. Makes it kind of hard to read them. :-/

Vonda McIntyre is an author who I've considered reading and not for
various reasons. Mainly related to crap cover art and the sheer number
of her books that appear in my local SF bookshop.

> Since you like fantasy, I presume you've read Tim Powers? In my
opinion,
> the best living horror-fantasy author. Period. No one does magic
better.

You presume wrong. The name doesn't ring any bells. Mind you that
doesn't prove much. I forget people's names while I'm taking to them.

I shall keep an eye out for his work in future.


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI

MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
Mail me for details.


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:13:21 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author

Hi :)

On 02-Apr-98, Teri Liston Piedrahita wrote:
> At 09:55 AM 4:2:98, you wrote:

>> Horrors! You haven't read either Haldeman or McIntyre? You really
ought
>> to rectify that problem at once. The Forever War is one of
Haldeman's

> ForeverWar was a book that was good and haunting. I could not put it
down and it has stayed with me for a long, long time.

Another recommendation for this book. I think I'm going to have to try
harder to find a copy.

>> better books, but I haven't read a bad one. I haven't read too many
of
>> Vonda McIntyre's books, but I've enjoyed all those I've read.

> Put me in the corner with the Dunces, I've never read McIntyre
either.
> I'm adding VOnda to my must read list

I've given up trying to keep a list these days. It just gets way too
long. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI

MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
Mail me for details.


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:17:57 +0100
Subject: Website

Hi :)

Finally the website is up and running. There may be the odd link that
doesn't work, let me know if you find any.

Currently I have a batch of midi files, some episode guides, book
reivews and a digest of this list on the site.

I'd like to add a section that has SF curios if I can. I'm thinking
of stuff like JMS' V: The Rebirth script. Behind the scenes stuff
that's been let loose on the net. If you know of any let me know.

http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/index.html

Not a very catchy URL. I'll maybe see if I can set up one of those
forwarding URLs for it.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI

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Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:19:46 -0600
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Same world, different author

Tim Powers' first book, and still my favorite, was "The Drawing of the
Dark." It's out of print, but most of the others are still in print.
"the Dark" refers to beer; when I first heard the title I thought it was
another cookie-cutter ultimate evil trying to destroy everything fantasy
story, and didn't read it for several years. My mistake.
David

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From: "Andy Reynolds"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: New
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:16:15 +0100
Status: U

Ego narked:


>For a webzine I'd actually recommend RTF format...

Well, in a biting piece of satire that is the net and related to our
discussion, OMNI folded yesterday.

Two minutes silence please, chaps.

(I think their site is still up and running for a while but it's been
reported in Locus that they've gone toes up.)

Toodleoo...




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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:15:47 +0100
Subject: Re[4]: New

Hi :)

On 03-Apr-98, Andy Reynolds wrote:
> Ego narked:

>> For a webzine I'd actually recommend RTF format...

> Well, in a biting piece of satire that is the net and related to our
> discussion, OMNI folded yesterday.

Ouch

Of course if they were operating on a pay scale comparable to print
mags I'm not hugely surprised, but it is a shame.

There aren't many big net only magazines making a profit.

I still think there are ways it could be done though.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:16:00 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author

Hi :)

On 03-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:
> Tim Powers' first book, and still my favorite, was "The Drawing of
the
> Dark." It's out of print, but most of the others are still in print.
> "the Dark" refers to beer; when I first heard the title I thought it
was
> another cookie-cutter ultimate evil trying to destroy everything
fantasy
> story, and didn't read it for several years. My mistake.

Beer...

I'm struggling to add anything intelligent to this now.

Beer...

What no dragons? ;)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
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http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:48:43 -0600
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Same world, different author

Well, there were wizards, efreets, giants, monsters, dwarves,etc., etc.,
etc.
David

Eoghann Irving wrote:
>
> Hi :)
>
> On 03-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:
> > Tim Powers' first book, and still my favorite, was "The Drawing of
> the
> > Dark." It's out of print, but most of the others are still in print.
> > "the Dark" refers to beer; when I first heard the title I thought it
> was
> > another cookie-cutter ultimate evil trying to destroy everything
> fantasy
> > story, and didn't read it for several years. My mistake.
>
> Beer...
>
> I'm struggling to add anything intelligent to this now.
>
> Beer...
>
> What no dragons? ;)
>
> --
>
> Have fun,
>
> Eoghann
>
> SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
> AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
> MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
> http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

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From: "Andy Reynolds"
Subject: Re: Same world, different author
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 03:32:13 +0100

[Powers' Drawing of the Dark]


>Well, there were wizards, efreets, giants, monsters, dwarves,etc.,
etc.,
>etc.


And just a little bit about the Arthurian legends. And the Turkish war.

Toodleoo...




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Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 06:10:12 -0600
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: Same world, different author

Andy, I keep getting your messages twice!
Andy, I keep getting your messages twice!
Luckily you keep them short.
Luckily you keep them short.
Oodles of oo
Oodles of oo

David Kopaska-Merkel
Ibid

Andy Reynolds wrote:
>
> [Powers' Drawing of the Dark]
>
> >Well, there were wizards, efreets, giants, monsters, dwarves,etc.,
> etc.,
> >etc.
>
> And just a little bit about the Arthurian legends. And the Turkish war.
>
> Toodleoo...

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 02:53:18 +0100
Subject: The Drawing of the Dark (was Re Same world, different author)

Hi :)

On 04-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> Well, there were wizards, efreets, giants, monsters, dwarves,etc.,
etc.,
> etc.

Well you've certainly got me very curious. I think I may do a web
search this weekend just to see what I can find out. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 17:07:45 +0100
Subject: ATTN JMS: Bruce B and Cast Turmoil? (fwd)

Hi :)

Thought this was sort of interesting if only in squashing the "Season
6" rumours once and for all. ;)

No spoilers here, nothing about the plot mentioned at all..


*** Forwarded message, originally written by Erez Zadok on 02-Apr-98
***

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: ksdavis@fas.harvard.edu (Kevin Davis)
Date: 1 Apr 1998 19:03:24 -0700
Lines: 36

Joe:

I just read an excerpt from Melissa Gilbert's chat last night on AOL's
Eclipse Cafe, where she claims that the entire cast of B5 was "let go"
because TNT "wants a whole new show" [i.e., Crusade]. The posting
made it
appear that Bruce Boxleitner was none too happy that he didn't have
the
opportunity to continue on into the spinoff.

Now, this makes perfect sense to *me*; I mean, Aeneas's story ends
when he
kills Turnus, and it wouldn't make any sense to show him hanging
around
with Ascanius and Lavinia -- the epic, and his role in it, are
finished.
Ditto, it seems to me, for Sheridan: his character has been
well-developed,
and has played his role in the events in the B5 universe, now it's
time for
him to move off the stage.

What I'm wondering is, what's going on with this? Is this [i.e., the
new
storyline and Sheridan's "end" in the B5 universe's plot] the reason
why
Sheridan/Bruce B. will not be moving into Crusade? If so, why is he
taking
this so personally, so hard? From his wife's post to the Cafe, it
seems as
if he sees this as a firing, not what it is -- the ending of one show
and
the beginning of another, and the necessary cast changes that come
about
when the dramatis personae change. I would just, as a fan of B5, hate
to
see a rift occur among the cast and among the fans like the one that
happened after CC's departure from the show. Is there any way to
ameliorate what looks to be a rather serious level of bitterness from
Bruce? And would this affect his availability for any feature-length
film
or future telefilms?

I also understand if you can't or won't comment on this right now,
since it
may be a rather difficult subject best left out of fandom.


+-----------------------------+
| -- Kevin Davis <*> |
| ksdavis@fas.harvard.edu |
+-----------------------------+

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: jmsatb5@aol.com (Jms at B5)
Date: 1 Apr 1998 23:53:16 -0700
Lines: 35

The real bottom line is, it's not easy when one's horse is shot out
from under
one. There's no way to take it lightly.

I've been saying for five years, "This is a five year story. When
it's over,
it's over." But there's the statement, and the reality of the
statement; two
different things. To the viewers, it's the end of the story. To an
actor,
it's "I'm out of work now because Joe said it was a five year story
instead of
a six year story."

I know that a lot of the cast have been in denial about this for a
long time,
many of them said in interviews, "Yeah, well, Joe's said it's a five
year arc,
but I don't see why it couldn't go longer." But if you live in that
notion,
then when the reality hits, it hits hard.

So the reaction is perfectly understandable on an emotional level.
When a show
is over, everyone's gone. In this town, that usually means "you're
fired, the
network doesn't like you or the show." It's a personal rejection.
Here it was
my decision, from the git-go, that this series would go five years and
no more.
That's kind of a new thing, and takes some getting used to. You can
only
interpret it by what you've experienced before.

One or two cast members may transition over into Crusade, assuming it
goes
ahead, but that show *has* to be its own show, it can't be just a
repackaged
B5. (And I'm referring to regulars here, there's plenty of room for
guest-starring roles for nearly all of our characters at one point or
another,
plus the likelihood of more B5 TV movies, plus the real possibility of
a B5
feature.)

It's an emotional reaction, and totally understandable.

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
-***
-*** B5JMS SUBSCRIBERS: Replies to messages go to the list maintainer,
-*** . If you want to reply elsewhere,
adjust
-*** the "To" field. See http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ezk/b5jms/ for
all
-*** other information about this list.

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:17:46 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Same world, different author

Hi :)

On 04-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:
> Andy, I keep getting your messages twice!
> Andy, I keep getting your messages twice!
> Luckily you keep them short.
> Luckily you keep them short.
> Oodles of oo
> Oodles of oo

I've noticed that his messages are getting sent both to the Reply-To:
address and the From: address. Could be a setting in the mailer.

As a general rule for mailing lists. Replies to the list should go to
Reply-To: personal replies should go to From:

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:18:05 +0100
Subject: Tim Powers

Hi :)

Well I did that web search today and was pleased with the amount of
information that I got from it.

The man has built up a quite substantial body of work almost all of
which seems to have past me by somehow.

I do at least recognise the title "The Anubis Gates" though. :)

I'm going to blame my local bookshops again. Their choice of Fantasy
and SF books seems to be pretty much random.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:18:16 +0100
Subject: Oktober

Hi :)

Well did anyone the UK watch Oktober this week? If so, what did they
think? Has anyone read Stephen Gallagher's book? How close is the
adaptation. Fairly close I'd guess since its his work.

I certainly enjoyed part one. Nice scenery. Well if you're going to
film in the Alps you should make the most of it. Fun, not too stupid,
but not too bogged down with explanations.

I'll be watching part two anyway.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: "Matthew Webber"
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:04:34 PST

>Eoghann

>Aha, a new voice to our discussions, welcome :)

You may learn to regret that statement. =) Thank You.

>I hadn't really looked at this as a racist thing actually. Certainly
>its a bunch of cliches. The characters were one-dimensional cyphers.

While I don't think the movie would have been at hit at the 1941 Berlin
Film Festival, the ridged stereotyping present within the ID4 indicates
a serious flaw within the script that prevents the movie from becomming
a 'good' simple action/SF movie.

The use of archetypes within a movie, especially one such as this that
aimed low in both content and plot as this one, is far from uncommon and
that is not what I am attempting to critizise. In a simple movie, you
use simple and recognizable characters. But the fact that the present
sterotypes where so blatant and culturally simple severly colours my
thinking, and I think it will colour how this movie will be seen in the
future.

I don't think that any of this was done on purpose by the writers, and
in a way that almost makes it worse. Can't wait for the thousands of
fleeing Japanese in the upcomming 'Godzilla'

Nice F/X though. (ooooh pretty bang bang)

Which brings me to my disgust with most modern SF movies. Pretty Bang
Bang. But as you say, as long as that is all they reach for, then it is
not fair to critize if they don't reach the intellectual level of
'Citizen Kane'...or the Bill and Ted adventures.

Take 'Lost in Space' .. a pleasent, diverting peace of space cheese that
is pretty to look at and instantly forgettable. But damn it! I'm tired
of cheese ... I want meat. I want wrap my mental jaws around a solid
peace of visual science fiction and come out astounded, dazzeled and in
a serious state of deep think. A state, you would sgree, not acheived by
'The Fifth Element' (which I still think is Boron)

Some would point to 'Gattaca', a neat little bandwagon of a movie that
was one step removed from the sheep that inspired it. It will be
remebered, if remembered at all, as a quaint period piece. There have
been thousands upon thousands of SF books that have explored genetic
engineering in a thousand different ways ... and Hollywood choses to
make this flat, uninteresting film (granted that is a personal opinion)
that looked and felt like it had been made in 1974. Then again, I think
about what Hollywood did to P.K.Dick's "We Can Remeber it for you
Wholesale" and shudder at the thought of what they might if they got
their greedy little hands on G.Bear's "Blood Music".

Its become almost a sick ritual by now. A gaggle of us geeks (or is it a
herd?) plunking down our eight fifty to see anything that might seen
remotely connected to a space ship or green skinned maiden in distress
.. and then across to the local where we shell peanuts, down Rickerd's
and bitch about the film 'til closing. Okay, so there isn't a lot to do
in Ottawa on a friday night during the winter.

So, more and more I find my visual SF needs travelling across the big
blue to the windswept coasts of Japan. 'Akira', 'Ghost in the Shell' and
'The Wings on Honnimese' have been the most thought-provoking, and
visually stunning SCIENCE FICTION movies of the ninetees. Not SF
cookie-cutter eye candy .. genuine science fiction.



>Well I tend to expect a pro-American attitude from an american film.
>Although there are a few expceptions.
>To be fair though I tend to expect a pro-British attitude from >British
films and thats usually the case too. :)

Being Canadian, overt displays of national pride tend to make me
uncomfotable. =) Thought I did join in the cheer that went up when the
aliens blasted the White House.



`,,``,,``,,`,,
"But how deeply felt. I went through all my schoolboy days convinced
of this, that 'literary studies' were no more than a series of
autopsies performed by heartless technicians. Worse than autopsies:
*biopsies*. Vivisection."
~Stephen Fry. "Making History"~
_____________________
Matthew Webber helot@hotmail.com
The Sanctum Alcedon -A Talislanta WebPage-
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2295/


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 08:36:44 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film

David Kopaska-Merkel comments on what Matthew Webber wrote:
>
> >Eoghann
>
> >Aha, a new voice to our discussions, welcome :)
>
> You may learn to regret that statement. =) Thank You.
>
> >I hadn't really looked at this as a racist thing actually. Certainly
> >its a bunch of cliches. The characters were one-dimensional cyphers.
>
> While I don't think the movie would have been at hit at the 1941 Berlin
> Film Festival, the ridged stereotyping present within the ID4 indicates
> a serious flaw within the script that prevents the movie from becomming
> a 'good' simple action/SF movie.
>
> The use of archetypes within a movie, especially one such as this that
> aimed low in both content and plot as this one, is far from uncommon and
> that is not what I am attempting to critizise. In a simple movie, you
> use simple and recognizable characters. But the fact that the present
> sterotypes where so blatant and culturally simple severly colours my
> thinking, and I think it will colour how this movie will be seen in the
> future.
>
> I don't think that any of this was done on purpose by the writers, and
> in a way that almost makes it worse. Can't wait for the thousands of
> fleeing Japanese in the upcomming 'Godzilla'

I agree completely. I stay away from SF movies because they're
invariably so disappointing. I watched ID4 with some friends because
they insisted, and, as sheer effects and adventure, it was OK. As SF it
was embarrassing.

I've been rereading my old Analogs from the early 60s, and it's just
barely possible to recapture the uncritical feeling I had reading them
as a teenager (not IN the early 60s -- I bought them used). Now, those
obvious plot giveaways and stereotypical cultural assumptions and
blatant politics make me understand why the New Wave was born.



>
> Nice F/X though. (ooooh pretty bang bang)
>
> Which brings me to my disgust with most modern SF movies. Pretty Bang
> Bang. But as you say, as long as that is all they reach for, then it is
> not fair to critize if they don't reach the intellectual level of
> 'Citizen Kane'...or the Bill and Ted adventures.
>
> Take 'Lost in Space' .. a pleasent, diverting peace of space cheese that
> is pretty to look at and instantly forgettable. But damn it! I'm tired
> of cheese ... I want meat. I want wrap my mental jaws around a solid
> peace of visual science fiction and come out astounded, dazzeled and in
> a serious state of deep think. A state, you would sgree, not acheived by
> 'The Fifth Element' (which I still think is Boron)
>
> Some would point to 'Gattaca', a neat little bandwagon of a movie that
> was one step removed from the sheep that inspired it. It will be
> remebered, if remembered at all, as a quaint period piece. There have
> been thousands upon thousands of SF books that have explored genetic
> engineering in a thousand different ways ... and Hollywood choses to
> make this flat, uninteresting film (granted that is a personal opinion)
> that looked and felt like it had been made in 1974. Then again, I think
> about what Hollywood did to P.K.Dick's "We Can Remeber it for you
> Wholesale" and shudder at the thought of what they might if they got
> their greedy little hands on G.Bear's "Blood Music".
>
> Its become almost a sick ritual by now. A gaggle of us geeks (or is it a
> herd?) plunking down our eight fifty to see anything that might seen
> remotely connected to a space ship or green skinned maiden in distress
> .. and then across to the local where we shell peanuts, down Rickerd's
> and bitch about the film 'til closing. Okay, so there isn't a lot to do
> in Ottawa on a friday night during the winter.
>
> So, more and more I find my visual SF needs travelling across the big
> blue to the windswept coasts of Japan. 'Akira', 'Ghost in the Shell' and
> 'The Wings on Honnimese' have been the most thought-provoking, and
> visually stunning SCIENCE FICTION movies of the ninetees. Not SF
> cookie-cutter eye candy .. genuine science fiction.

I liked Baron Munchhausen, Berlin, and Time Bandits. Those movies were
awe-inspiring. Not on the highest intellectual plane, but I felt they
more than competently used their entire potential. I have no objection
to a thriller like Time Bandits if it's done well, and that one was. The
more subtle kinds of SF novel (e.g., Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun)
might just be impossible to capture on film. Films can be subtle, but
it's done in completely different ways from the way it's done in novels,
and I doubt you can translate adequately either way.



>
> >Well I tend to expect a pro-American attitude from an american film.
> >Although there are a few expceptions.
> >To be fair though I tend to expect a pro-British attitude from >British
> films and thats usually the case too. :)
>
> Being Canadian, overt displays of national pride tend to make me
> uncomfotable. =) Thought I did join in the cheer that went up when the
> aliens blasted the White House.
>
I KNEW you'd have to comment on the mention of US and Britain, but NOT
Canada! But I felt the same way, because I feel too much US "patriotism"
is nothing more than jingoism; true patriotism usually ends one in jail.

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From: "Pagan"
Subject: RE: ID4 and the state of modern SF film
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:36:39 +0900


-----Original Message-----
п : David Kopaska-Merkel
: fsf-list@thenet.co.uk
: 1998ǯ 4 5 22:43
̾ : Re: ID4 and the state of modern SF film


>I agree completely. I stay away from SF movies because they're
>invariably so disappointing. I watched ID4 with some friends because

When people who happen to know my SF interest who ask me about it, I'm
inclined to even tell them that it's not even proper to call it bad SF than
being not-SF at all, but an SFX roller coaster ride - starts slowly, then
just pushes you off your seat visually, and by the time it ends, your back
where you started. But recently (perhaps even since the dawning of SF film),
I've hardly seen anything good. Contact was quite okay, but ID4, Men in
Black, etc. just failed to garner much interest with me. In the anime line,
I've seen several interesting titles whose crap-to-interesting ratio seems
marginally higher. I'm still doing work on how Japanese written SF goes
about, but considering my dependency on translation, the volume of work
isn't exactly high unless my Japanese language reading improves.

>more subtle kinds of SF novel (e.g., Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun)
>might just be impossible to capture on film. Films can be subtle, but
>it's done in completely different ways from the way it's done in novels,
>and I doubt you can translate adequately either way.

Quite true. You certainly would have difficulty depicting the subtelties of
SF which play on abstract ideas rather than clean, visual technology.
Unfortunately, when the term SF is brought up in Hollywood, apparently the
first thing that rings in the producers' heads is SFX and aliens rather than
pushing the logic of an absent paradigm from our reality.

>I KNEW you'd have to comment on the mention of US and Britain, but NOT
>Canada! But I felt the same way, because I feel too much US "patriotism"

It's funny in the Philippines. I've always disagreed, but many literature
professors push for this national identity thing as the best theme to make
one's writing unique. And I keep thinking, not many people actually find
that interesting enough to read. Which is perhaps one reason why I've turned
to SF in general instead of locally published so-called 'literature' as it
offers ideas worth exploring.

Unfortunately, SF film just doesn't play on ideation to begin with, most of
the time. It wants visuals. Why, I wonder? Does it sell better?


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:57:25 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 and the state of modern SF film

Hi :)

On 05-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> I agree completely. I stay away from SF movies because they're
> invariably so disappointing. I watched ID4 with some friends because
> they insisted, and, as sheer effects and adventure, it was OK. As SF
it
> was embarrassing.

Which is perhaps where our thinking as fans is wrong. We have a bad
habit of looking to each SF film to "prove" something. Of course most
people watching didn't care whether it was Sci-Fi or not.

> I've been rereading my old Analogs from the early 60s, and it's just
> barely possible to recapture the uncritical feeling I had reading
them
> as a teenager (not IN the early 60s -- I bought them used). Now,
those
> obvious plot giveaways and stereotypical cultural assumptions and
> blatant politics make me understand why the New Wave was born.

Yet in some ways I prefer the old style. Sometimes I prefer to get
away from real life and all its complications. I suppose some of
everything is whats really required.

Much the same argument I use to defend my liking of fantasy actually.
;)

> I liked Baron Munchhausen, Berlin, and Time Bandits. Those movies
were
> awe-inspiring. Not on the highest intellectual plane, but I felt
they
> more than competently used their entire potential. I have no
objection
> to a thriller like Time Bandits if it's done well, and that one was.
The
> more subtle kinds of SF novel (e.g., Gene Wolfe's Book of the New
Sun)
> might just be impossible to capture on film. Films can be subtle,
but
> it's done in completely different ways from the way it's done in
novels,
> and I doubt you can translate adequately either way.

Baron Munchhausen was a visually grand, but flawed, story. There were
some wonderful scenes in it, but as a story it didn't really hang
together.

Time Bandits however, hardly put a foot wrong giving some visual
thrills and characters with a bit of depth. It wasn't suble as you
say, but I can't imagine anyone feeling shortchanged by it.

I find it hard to imagine ANY Gene Wolfe book transfering to the
screen. Its a difficult thing to do well even with an action oriented
book. Never mind books full of literary "games".

The same could be said for someone like Iain M Banks. The very
nature of the stories is entwined with the format in which they are
created.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:06:47 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: ID4 and the state of modern SF film

Hi :)

On 05-Apr-98, Matthew Webber wrote:

> The use of archetypes within a movie, especially one such as this
that
> aimed low in both content and plot as this one, is far from uncommon
and
> that is not what I am attempting to critizise. In a simple movie,
you
> use simple and recognizable characters. But the fact that the
present
> sterotypes where so blatant and culturally simple severly colours my

> thinking, and I think it will colour how this movie will be seen in
the
> future.

Quite likely. Although how a film is seen in the future really only
impacts one whether one should call it a classic, not a term I tend to
use much at all, rather than whether it was "good".

Good is really very bland praise after all.

> I don't think that any of this was done on purpose by the writers,
and
> in a way that almost makes it worse. Can't wait for the thousands of

> fleeing Japanese in the upcomming 'Godzilla'

Depends what you mean by on purpose. I suspect it was deliberate not
to give the characters any real depth. Whether the consequences of
that decision were thought out is another matter.

> Which brings me to my disgust with most modern SF movies. Pretty
Bang
> Bang. But as you say, as long as that is all they reach for, then it
is
> not fair to critize if they don't reach the intellectual level of
> 'Citizen Kane'...or the Bill and Ted adventures.

The problem I think that SF has is that you don't see the variety of
SF movies that you see of say Gangster films. So people expect the
films to be all things to all people.

The Untouchables is only marginally above something like ID4 in terms
of plot or characterisation. But thats okay because we have The
Godfather and Goodfellas etc.

In the case of SF we have BladeRunner and 2001 and thats about it.
Even those two are seriously flawed in various ways.

> Take 'Lost in Space' .. a pleasent, diverting peace of space cheese
that
> is pretty to look at and instantly forgettable. But damn it! I'm
tired
> of cheese ... I want meat. I want wrap my mental jaws around a solid

> peace of visual science fiction and come out astounded, dazzeled and
in
> a serious state of deep think. A state, you would sgree, not
acheived by
> 'The Fifth Element' (which I still think is Boron)

I on the other hand tend to be bored to tears by real "hard" SF. ;)

Film is not a subtle medium. Marketing even less so. Unfortunately
the methods used to make a film almost rule out intellectual SF simply
for budgetary reasons.

You can take it a few steps above ID4, but you'll never get the
equivalent of written SF.

> Some would point to 'Gattaca', a neat little bandwagon of a movie
that
> was one step removed from the sheep that inspired it. It will be
> remebered, if remembered at all, as a quaint period piece. There
have
> been thousands upon thousands of SF books that have explored genetic

> engineering in a thousand different ways ... and Hollywood choses to

> make this flat, uninteresting film (granted that is a personal
opinion)
> that looked and felt like it had been made in 1974.

There's also Contact I guess. If you look at the success to failure
ratio of films in general I think that SF is no worse than any other
group. But SF films are a very small part of Hollywoods output.

> So, more and more I find my visual SF needs travelling across the
big
> blue to the windswept coasts of Japan. 'Akira', 'Ghost in the Shell'
and
> 'The Wings on Honnimese' have been the most thought-provoking, and
> visually stunning SCIENCE FICTION movies of the ninetees. Not SF
> cookie-cutter eye candy .. genuine science fiction.

And yet Anime is guilty of everything you criticise ID4 for. It has
some of the most outrageous racism, stereotyping and poor
storytelling.

The only Anime thats totally exempt from that list is "Wings of
Honnimese" which is an astonishing film.

Akira is definately guilty of the "pretty boom boom" syndrome, with
the plot getting totally lost in the last hour. The original story
was far too big ever to be a single film.

Another anime I would love to see is the version of "Nausicaa of the
Valley of Wind". But again I suspect that having read the Manga I
would be disappointed.

>> Well I tend to expect a pro-American attitude from an american
film.
>> Although there are a few expceptions.
>> To be fair though I tend to expect a pro-British attitude from
British
>> films and thats usually the case too. :)

> Being Canadian, overt displays of national pride tend to make me
> uncomfotable. =) Thought I did join in the cheer that went up when
the
> aliens blasted the White House.

I don't take national pride to seriously. Its debateable what either
Britain or the US actually has to be proud of.

But I suspect it is the sort of thing that only really irritates
people if they haven't enjoyed the film anyway.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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Subject: Re: New
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:51:56 -0000
From: Simon Forrester

David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

>> I must admit, I was considering starting some sort of fan fiction thing
>> on www.sfnet.co.uk, but when I mentioned it in a forum all I recieved was
>> bad Star Trek sex stories. Opinions, please - is there space for a really
>> high-quality fiction site on the web? How much should people be paid for
>> their work, if at all?
>>
>As an author, I'll state unequivocably that people SHOULD be paid for
>their work ... as much as you can afford (which might be rather little,
>of course).
>
>There are quite a few fiction sites on the web already, and some of them
>might well be high-quality. As I mentioned before, I don't read fiction
>on the web, but I know it's there.
> David Kopaska-Merkel

Ah - therein lies the rub - exactly WHY don't you read fiction on the web?

simon.forrester@futurenet.com - online editor
alt email: simon_forrester@yahoo.com
www.culttv.co.uk - www.sfnet.co.uk
homepage: www.hairy.co.uk



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Subject: Re: New
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:51:53 -0000
From: Simon Forrester

Sorry about the wait for the reply - been a bit snowed under!

>Yes and depends. Of course there's a place for professional quality
>fiction on the web, there's Omni. As to payment, it's up to you. If
>you want to attract the best pay 3c per word or 30 per thousand words,
>(equivalent pro rates).

Blimey - is that all?

>You can go as low as you want, of course.
>Expect a _lot_ of ms though. Also, if you want the best, accept
>snail-mail subs only and bounce those that aren't formatted properly,
>(12pt Courier, double spaced, 1 inch margins etc.), and those that are
>illiterate in use of structure and grammar, etc. Accepting subs through
>e-mail is a pain in the butt. You've got all the different formats and
>attachments to deal with and that's before you can even start to read
>your slush. Let alone choose.

Hmm - the problem with snail mail is that it tends to come in on paper -
I'd prefer to set some very strict rules on the formatting of digitals,
and bounce those that don't comply or at least those that'd be too much
hassle to convert.

>This will be a _lot_ of work. A whole lot. And it'll lose money.
>Plus, there's the issue of buying rights which is a little complicated
>for web work, (as you're immediately ditributing worldwide).

Seybold confirmed that very few people make real money on the web anyway
- I've a healthy editorial budget provided by the multi-national that
owns us, y'see.

>Also, what are the legalities of paying for fan-fic? Don't the major
>franchises sue for things like that? (I'm sure SFX and its team of
>hungry coporate lawyers have checked that out, but...)

Fanfic is a dodgy issue - I think it'd have to be truly original work,
but we're currently forging strong relationships with certain major
franchises, so it might not be as much of a problem...

>Course, I'm speaking through my hat because I've never done an editing
>job. I'd suggest taking a good look at Omni and Mind's Eye and see how
>they do it. Of course, being affiliated to SFX you might well get a
>head start in advertising and some revenue, which is half the battle.
>However, actually conducting the editing and proofreading and such isn't
>a five minute job.

Tell me about it - before i moved onto the online bit I was an editor of
a national newstand myself. It's a pain in the arse. But I've got wads of
experience, being a trained and proven editor and production editor at
various occasions - it isn't that much of a worry, frankly.


simon.forrester@futurenet.com - online editor
alt email: simon_forrester@yahoo.com
www.culttv.co.uk - www.sfnet.co.uk
homepage: www.hairy.co.uk



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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:52:43 +0100
Subject: Online fiction(was: New)

Hi :)

On 06-Apr-98, Simon Forrester wrote:

> Ah - therein lies the rub - exactly WHY don't you read fiction on
the web?

In my purely personal (and admittedly not so humble) opinion you can
break it down into three things.

1) Format - people don't like reading stuff of a computer screen. Its
limiting and uncomfortable. The partial solution to that is to
provide at least some fiction in a format that prints out well.

2) Web vs Magazine - Its a different medium. The once a month or
bimonthly schedule of a magazine work against the natural "stream of
change" approach of the web. You want people to be in the habit of
checking out the site. A month is too long to wait. Perhaps
staggering the release of the stories would help here. That plus any
other form of interaction you can give. Ideally it should be a daily
stop off point, at least weekly or you'll lose a lot of your audience.

3) Advertising - a lot of webzines have zero budget so they rely on
people linking to them. That makes it hard to generate a serious
number of hits. Of course you have an advantage here in that you can
cross-promote from the SFX site etc.


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:44:56 +0100
Subject: Fiction webzine (was: New)

Hi :)

On 06-Apr-98, Simon Forrester wrote:
> Sorry about the wait for the reply - been a bit snowed under!

>> Yes and depends. Of course there's a place for professional
quality
>> fiction on the web, there's Omni. As to payment, it's up to you.
If
>> you want to attract the best pay 3c per word or 30 per thousand
words,
>> (equivalent pro rates).

> Blimey - is that all?

Writing fiction doesn't pay unless you're Jackie Collins. :-(

Thats even more the case with a minority subject. Writing for a more
mainstream magazine you might reasonably expect 60-100 per thousand
words.

Magazines like Interzone are operating on very tight budgets. I think
Interzone has a circulation of around 10,000.

In fact given the unprofitable nature of web publishing you could make
a fair case for a lower pay rate. But you might not get the same
quality of fiction that way of course.

> Hmm - the problem with snail mail is that it tends to come in on
paper -
> I'd prefer to set some very strict rules on the formatting of
digitals,
> and bounce those that don't comply or at least those that'd be too
much
> hassle to convert.

Create a template then get them to use that. Could save a lot of time
on formatting.

>> Also, what are the legalities of paying for fan-fic? Don't the
major
>> franchises sue for things like that? (I'm sure SFX and its team of
>> hungry coporate lawyers have checked that out, but...)

> Fanfic is a dodgy issue - I think it'd have to be truly original
work,
> but we're currently forging strong relationships with certain major
> franchises, so it might not be as much of a problem...

Fanfic is rarely top quality writing anyway, although you do get the
odd exception. And of course if the quality isn't at least reasonable
then whatever short-term draw you got from having say a Trek story
would be quickly lost.


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:39:52 -0700
From: Teri Liston Piedrahita
Subject: Re: Fiction webzine (was: New)

At 09:44 PM 4/6/98 +0100, you wrote:

>Hi :)

>

> On 06-Apr-98, Simon Forrester wrote:

>> Sorry about the wait for the reply - been a bit snowed under!

>

>>> Yes and depends. Of course there's a place for professional

>quality

>>> fiction on the web, there's Omni.


Sadly, OMNI is no longer an option. I've had a working relationship with OMNI for about 8 months now. Last Tuesday, General Media Corp pulled the plug on the publication, web chat and all. It was pretty stunning but not entirely unlooked for.


The page is still up when I looked on Saturday, but I don't expect it to be up much longer. I still have my first issue of OMNI and I was truly bummed by this change.


Oh well...


There are still others.


Teri




=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Teri Liston Piedrahita

Special Events Producer

teri@liveworld.com



LiveWorld Productions, Inc.

307 Orchard City Dr. #304

Campbell, CA 95008


office: 408.871.3212

fax: 408.871.0621

cell: 408.390.4527


www.talkcity.com

www.liveworld.com

www.onnow.com

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:42:52 -0500
From: Chris Robinson
Subject: remove



Chris Robinson
and his various forms of madness @
Homepage: http://www.reach.net/~crobins/
Yahoo City Travelling Stickmen Media Guide:
http://www.reach.net/~crobins/ycts.htm




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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:02:25 -0500
From: David Kopaska-Merkel
Subject: Re: New

Simon Forrester wrote:
>
> David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:
>
> >> I must admit, I was considering starting some sort of fan fiction thing
> >> on www.sfnet.co.uk, but when I mentioned it in a forum all I recieved was
> >> bad Star Trek sex stories. Opinions, please - is there space for a really
> >> high-quality fiction site on the web? How much should people be paid for
> >> their work, if at all?
> >>
> >As an author, I'll state unequivocably that people SHOULD be paid for
> >their work ... as much as you can afford (which might be rather little,
> >of course).
> >
> >There are quite a few fiction sites on the web already, and some of them
> >might well be high-quality. As I mentioned before, I don't read fiction
> >on the web, but I know it's there.
> > David Kopaska-Merkel
>
> Ah - therein lies the rub - exactly WHY don't you read fiction on the web?
>
> simon.forrester@futurenet.com - online editor
> alt email: simon_forrester@yahoo.com
> www.culttv.co.uk - www.sfnet.co.uk
> homepage: www.hairy.co.uk
Because I don't like reading while staring at phosphors, feet on the
floor, and back straight. I like to lie back, put my feet up, and prop
the book on my chest!
David

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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: new online fiction to be started
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:35:27 PDT

I just visited Eoghann's site, Solar Flare, and I had an inspiration.
His idea for a serial-type story online set my gears in motion.
I'm wondering if anyone on the list would be interested in co-writing
with me.
If you are, my ICQ number is 2375539 and my e-mail address is
bealzebub@hotmail.com
Chris Bobbitt
And Now For Something Completely
Different


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:41:42 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: New

Hi :)
On 07-Apr-98, David Kopaska-Merkel wrote:

> Because I don't like reading while staring at phosphors, feet on the
> floor, and back straight. I like to lie back, put my feet up, and
prop
> the book on my chest!

You could always do what I do which is to arrange my room so that I
can lounge on my bed while reading the screen. :))

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:18:26 +0100
Subject: JMS Confirms Crusade a Go! (fwd)


Hi :)

Thought people might be interested to hear that Crusade is now
confirmed.

Originally From: Bruce Padgett

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Tonight at 11:05 PST on local L.A. public
public radio station KPFK's sci-fi talk show
"Hour 25" (which JMS used to host, BTW):

JMS announced that "Crusade" would go into production on July 27 for a
premiere date of Jan. 6, 1999 on TNT. No details on casting or number
of years TNT committed to, though he emphasized that the Shadow plague
left on Earth would wipe out all life on the planet within 5 years if
the incubation period passed with no cure found. He described the new
series as the first "archaeological" sci-fi series as a team of
explorers would rummage through the remains of old civilizations in
the
search for that cure. An official announcement would come from TNT on
Monday, he said in a preface to his remarks.

And that's the extent of the info JMS gave during his short phone
conversation, done live with host Warren James.

Bruce Padgett

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:41:54 +0100
Subject: Re: new online fiction to be started

Hi :)

On 07-Apr-98, Chris Bobbitt wrote:
> I just visited Eoghann's site, Solar Flare, and I had an
inspiration.
> His idea for a serial-type story online set my gears in motion.

Wow I inspired someone! ;)

I must get back to the half finished first part of that serial which
is sitting on my hard drive.

> I'm wondering if anyone on the list would be interested in
co-writing
> with me.
> If you are, my ICQ number is 2375539 and my e-mail address is
> bealzebub@hotmail.com

Good luck. Let us know how it goes. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:31:54 +0100
Subject: brief outage

Hi :)

Its possible that this list may have been briefly inaccessible
yesterday. My ISP had to do some emergency maintenance work. They did
actually warn us about this in advance, but I misunderstood the
message and assumed that the problem was me getting out to the net
rather than the net getting back to me. :)

So if anyone sent mail to the list yesterday and had it returned,
please resend. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:46:09 +0100
Subject: THE SCI-FILE #67 (fwd)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by scifi-lists@scifi.com on
08-Apr-98 ***
Science Fiction Weekly
More than 39,000 registered readers!
http://www.scifiweekly.com



-> THE SCI-FILE #67

Science Fiction Weekly 67 is now online. This issue we focus on "Lost
in
Space" with a review of the new movie from New Line Cinema, the
classic TV
pilot that never aired, New Line's extensive "Lost in Space" Web site,
and
the six CD set "The Fantastic Worlds of Irwin Allen," devoted to the
music
behind Irwin Allen's productions, including (you guessed it!) "Lost in
Space." Meanwhile, SF critic and scholar John Clute takes a look at
Gore
Vidal's new SF book, and we review a new novel from Peter F. Hamilton
and a
new collection from Spider Robinson. We also look at updated versions
of
the classic arcade game "Battlezone" and the classic anime title
"Dirty
Pair," plus we have all the latest news from Sci-Fi Wire. This
issue's
contents include:


-> EXCESSIVE CANDOUR
SF scholar and critic John Clute takes a look at Gore Vidal's new SF
novel
"The Smithsonian Institution" in "A brilliant dawn song from an old
writer."

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/excess.html


-> NEWS OF THE WEEK
Omni fires staff but will return to print, Fox lands the "Star Wars"
prequels, Card will write two more Ender books, "B5" gets a new
timeslot,
Mulder was married, and more.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/news.html


-> OFF THE SHELF
Peter Hamilton's boisterous space opera saga continues with "The
Neutronium
Alchemist, Part 1: Consolidation," and Spider Robinson returns to rare
form
with "User Friendly."

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/books.html


-> ON SCREEN
The Robinsons head back into space with an all new cast, an all new
ship,
an all new robot and, of course, a brand new adventure. Get "Lost in
Space" all over again.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/screen.html


-> CLASSIC SCI-FI
Irwin Allen produced and directed a "Lost in Space" pilot called "No
Place
to Hide" that never aired back in the 1960s. That shouldn't stop
viewers
from watching this classic.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/classic.html


-> SCI-FI SITE OF THE WEEK
New Line Cinema has created an extensive Web site to bolster the
release of
its new "Lost in Space" movie. Fire up your Shockwave and don't
forget
Cosmo!

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/site.html


-> ANIME
A.D.V. has come out with "Dirty Pair Flash," a new take on anime's
most
destructive female operatives, Kei and Yuri. Boy, do they look
weird...

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/anime.html


-> COOL SCI-FI STUFF
With the "Fantasy Worlds of Irwin Allen," you can listen to all the
great
theme songs and sound effects that made the master's disaster flicks
so
great.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/cool.html


-> GAMES
Remember "Battlezone," the first arcade game ever to use 3-D graphics?

Well, it's back and better than ever as a new PC game from Activision.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/games.html


-> LETTERS
In our Letters to the Editor section we have only two letters this
week.
One complains that Fox's "The X-Files" Expo is a ripoff, and the other
praises "Dark City."

http://www.scifiweekly.com/current/letters.html



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---

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*** End of forwarded message ***

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA, DEPRESSION, FICTION, SCI-FI
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
http://members.tripod.com/~ego2/


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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: new online fiction to be started
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:36:42 PDT

HI :)
I just visited Eoghann's site, Solar Flare, and I had an inspiration.
His idea for a serial-type story online set my gears in motion.
I'm wondering if anyone on the list would be interested in co-writing
with me.
If you are, my ICQ number is 2375539 and my e-mail address is
bealzebub@hotmail.com
Chris Bobbitt
And Now For Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "Chris Bobbitt"
Subject: new online fiction to be started
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:40:39 PDT

HI :)
I just visited Eoghann's site, Solar Flare, and I had an inspiration.
His idea for a serial-type story online set my gears in motion.
I'm wondering if anyone on the list would be interested in co-writing
with me.
If you are, my ICQ number is 2375539 and my e-mail address is
bealzebub@hotmail.com
Chris Bobbitt
And Now For Something Completely Different
http://www.tex-web.com/snark

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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